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Jace Hall
02-12-2020 at 03:26 AM
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Adding platforms...

Been thinking about the whole FPGA/EMU/Original platform intermix issue.

It is my opinion that it is probably best for Twin Galaxies to keep all platforms separated in terms of leaderboard participation at this time.

This means that things like FPGA will exist on their own hardware basis, and not be considered to be competitively "the same" as the original hardware they are trying to replicate.

Keeping things more pure in this manner may help adjudicators have greater clarity and reduce confusion.

With that in mind, Twin Galaxies will need to be more proactive and comprehensive in terms of adding platforms to its competitive list so that all can be served as needed.

I would ask the community to please try to provide a comprehensive list of additional platforms that Twin Galaxies should immediately add to help create opportunities for the users of those platforms to create tracks on and fairly compete with each other.

If there are any strong disagreements with this direction I am open to hearing the rationale.


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Comments
  1. Barthax's Avatar

    Just to clarify on that separation: is TG considering all "FPGA" of a single platform (i.e., anything FPGA that attempts to replicate NES) as one platform or each FPGA as a separate platform in its own right?

    If the latter, what is the thought process on Atari Flashback which has at least three different incarnation types? Atari Flashback 1 was "NES-on-a-chip" ports, Atari Flashback 2 was "Atari VCS-on-a-chip", Atari Flashback 3+ are various AtGames emulation engines.

  2. swaggers's Avatar

    So where does that leave current systems being used as backwards compatible? People using PS3 to play PS1 games where the system is really emulation?

    Also where do we stand on combining fractured systems? Like the various PSNs should just be listed in with the Playstations?

    I also asked some time ago for the addition of Game.com and Microvision. These are not emu/FPGA related but actual released systems that TG currently doesn't cover.

  3. GibGirl's Avatar

    There is a wiki page listing some of the platforms currently not supported by TG.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/wiki_index.php?title=Platforms-Missing


  4. Barthax's Avatar

    I've not recorded anything on these but (not FPGA) systems I'd like to eventually see added:

    1292 Advanced Programmable Video System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1292_Advanced_Programmable_Video_System (includes the Interton VC-4000 - probably the best known "clone")

    Nikko digiBlast: https://www.gadgetzone.nl/nieuws.php?id=678

    Amstrad GX4000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_GX4000


    I'm not about to ask these get added but I'm curious where do "TV Plug & Play" recreations of platforms fit into the mix. For example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intellivision-25-Video-Game-System/dp/B00009P7J9 and I've a C64 one too. Just mentioning for discussion's sake.

    Updated 02-12-2020 at 06:38 AM by Barthax
  5. Kelly Kerr's Avatar

    Arcade1up needs to added


  6. GibGirl's Avatar

    This would also be the *perfect* time to finally merge Xbox 360 Live Arcade into Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 PSN into PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 PSN into PlayStation 4, PlayStation Portable PSN into PlayStation Portable, Playstation Vita PSN into Playstation Vita, Nintendo Wii U eShop into Nintendo Wii U, and Nintendo 3DS eShop into Nintendo 3DS.

    None of the platform distinctions for digital vs physical games make any sense anymore, given there's effectively no distinction anymore in how games are made available.

    Thankssdwyer138, timmell thanked this post
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  7. sdwyer138's Avatar

    TG16/PCE needs to be looked at, because it is inconsistent how the two regions classify the CD add on:

    TurboGrafx 16 and Turbo CD are listed as separate platforms whereas PC Engine combines PCE and CD in to one platform.

    I feel separate platforms is correct since that is how Sega CD and Jaguar CD are handled.

    LikesRaGe liked this post
  8. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    TG16/PCE needs to be looked at, because it is inconsistent how the two regions classify the CD add on:

    TurboGrafx 16 and Turbo CD are listed as separate platforms whereas PC Engine combines PCE and CD in to one platform.

    I feel separate platforms is correct since that is how Sega CD and Jaguar CD are handled.

    Extra amusing is that almost all of the Jaguar CD games are just under the Jaguar itself. :)

    Likessdwyer138 liked this post
  9. timmell's Avatar

    So now can we separate the EMU tracks that are currently inside Atari 2600, NES, SNES etc,original hardware platform to a new EMU platform, like Arcade and MAME.


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  10. sdwyer138's Avatar

    I don't know anything about the Nintendo 64DD, so I'm not advocating for it, just asking the question... Are there trackable games for it?

  11. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    I don't know anything about the Nintendo 64DD, so I'm not advocating for it, just asking the question... Are there trackable games for it?

    Here's the list of games if anyone is willing to take a look at them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64DD#Released

    F-Zero X Expansion Kit has 12 additional tracks that can be added here.

  12. EVN's Avatar

    If you're going to do it why not just make the platforms "Original" and combine all "Not Original" ?

  13. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by timmell

    So now can we separate the EMU tracks that are currently inside Atari 2600, NES, SNES etc,original hardware platform to a new EMU platform, like Arcade and MAME.



    And remove Raspberry/Orange Pi as platforms

  14. RaGe's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by timmell

    So now can we separate the EMU tracks that are currently inside Atari 2600, NES, SNES etc,original hardware platform to a new EMU platform, like Arcade and MAME.


    Makes sense, since Arcade and MAME are kept separate.


    Just a thought, but what about NTSC and PAL separated to their own platform? In terms of leaderboards, PAL competitors don't have a fair shake, due to their scores being mixed in with the much-more-submitted-for NTSC.

  15. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Rename "Novelty" to "Electro-Mechanical"

  16. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RaGe

    Makes sense, since Arcade and MAME are kept separate.


    Just a thought, but what about NTSC and PAL separated to their own platform? In terms of leaderboards, PAL competitors don't have a fair shake, due to their scores being mixed in with the much-more-submitted-for NTSC.

    I've suggested before that there be some sort of fancier way of handling this. Such as imagine selecting "NES Legend of Zelda", and there's a dropdown where you can select "NTSC", "PAL", "EMU", or now maybe even "FPGA/MiSTer". So they'd all be logically together because of being the same game, but each in their own "filter" or "category" that's still treated separately.

    It's not a fully fleshed out idea, sure to have issues to work out, but it could, in theory, mean adding a track could also automatically add ones for all of the categories. Or a platform could have emu and fpga versions just "appear" by adding that category to a platform.

    It feels cleaner than just having lots more new platforms, though it means dev work to make it happen (with the inevitable bugs that come with such changes).

    LikesRaGe, ThePulseRifle, HAN, thegamer1185 liked this post
  17. sdwyer138's Avatar

    New platform called "Just For Fun" (or something like that) where tracks like "sit with a rescue Pomeranian", "eat chicken wings", etc can all be moved to

  18. ThePulseRifle's Avatar

    Not gonna lie - I am really looking forward to being able to submit things accomplished on MiSTer.

    LikesHAN, EVN liked this post
  19. SincerelyFranny's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    New platform called "Just For Fun" (or something like that) where tracks like "sit with a rescue Pomeranian", "eat chicken wings", etc can all be moved to

    This one was in the works at some point in time.
    I think it just got pushed down on the list for some reason...
    I think it was because we needed to engineer these tracks so that they would not be added to the record count due to their non-competitive nature. Also, a criteria for creating tracks on this "Platform" would need to be set in place.

    Do you have any suggestion for those criteria?


    This was also when we talked about renaming "Novelty" to "Electro- Mechanical"


  20. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RaGe

    Makes sense, since Arcade and MAME are kept separate.


    Just a thought, but what about NTSC and PAL separated to their own platform? In terms of leaderboards, PAL competitors don't have a fair shake, due to their scores being mixed in with the much-more-submitted-for NTSC.

    Good idea here and it got me thinking of it another way. Why not just put PAL and NTSC tracks together so they are competing against one another? While I do realize real time speed running wouldn't work, but for games that have in game timers and points this could work. Then some of those PAL players that are crushing games can have their scores/ESI compared to all other scores.

    I've only competed on a few games both for PAL/NTSC, mainly my Tiger Woods scores. Those scores should just compete against one another. A score done on Pebble Beach for NTSC can easily/equally be competed against playing it in PAL. I've done it. This would be a great way to actually compare all world players to one another, and reduce a lot of tracks per game on TG. Less clutter, more accurate player vs player across the board.

    Yep, there are going to be issues for some games. Racing games with in game timers and golf games could be a start for this transition. Think this would be a great change if it's doable. Also, it would eliminate the need for myself and others from having to put up double scores (one for NTSC, one for PAL) on an identical track for the same game. Again, back to Tiger Woods. Instead of me needing to play Tiger Woods 04 on NTSC and PAL to compete on the exact same track on the both regions, my one score on NTSC would already be competing against everyone. As a fail safe, TG could still have some sort of option in the submission form to select what region you are playing the game in, just in case there is an unknown advantage when playing in a certain region the tracks/scores can then be easily separated.

    Updated 02-12-2020 at 04:05 PM by thegamer1185
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