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Jace Hall
09-08-2020 at 06:04 PM
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Short update

Just a quick note to the community:

@admin staff has been working on all the back end issues and such to continue to make the site a smoother experience. It looks like we will be upgrading our server very soon for much increased performance so that will be good.

We are trying to fix all the accumulation of smaller items that definitely need addressing, so you should be seeing improvements there inch by inch as well.

We should be able to get through all of that stuff in the next 1-3 weeks. After that we can turn our attention to more meaty items, like finally getting 2 player team records properly handled in the system and other items of that nature that help to make competition easier/more fun / rewarding.

In the meanwhile, if there are any specific significant new features that you would like to see added to the site that you believe we may not be aware of, please feel free to list them on this post so that they at least can be considered!

Hope everyone is doing ok during these challenging times. Wishing the best to all!

-Jace

Comments
  1. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    At this point I think the site is very nice for the most part, not major complaints. There is two things that I would change if I could.

    1. Fix the issue with the avatar not showing in the game leaderboards.

    2. Give the general leaderboards a better look. They look kind of messy and there is no consistency, some look different than others.

    ThanksJace Hall, kernzyp thanked this post
  2. MyOwnWorstEnemy's Avatar

    I suggest adding an ESI column for each individual track leaderboard. For games with multiple tracks, only showing ESI at the accumulated game level leaves a bit of a mystery of how much each effort on the individual tracks matter to the overall game ranking. It might make a difference in competition if folks know how much ESI they are 'fighting' for on each track.



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  3. timmell's Avatar

    "After that we can turn our attention to more meaty items, like finally getting 2 player team records properly handled in the system and other items of that nature that help to make competition easier/more fun / rewarding."


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  4. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnWorstEnemy

    I suggest adding an ESI column for each individual track leaderboard. For games with multiple tracks, only showing ESI at the accumulated game level leaves a bit of a mystery of how much each effort on the individual tracks matter to the overall game ranking. It might make a difference in competition if folks know how much ESI they are 'fighting' for on each track.



    In my experience, ESI can be fairly easy to calculate. If you beat a score by the slighest unit, you will get 1 point, if you beat a record with double the points you will get a maximum of 2 points. So for example in this leaderboard you posted, there are 43 records, Andrew is in 1st place with 525 points, he is getting 2 points for every score below 260 and aprox 1 for ever score above 260.

    So he is getting 2 points for beating 40 scores = 80

    and 1 point for scores above 260 = 2

    The 1st place in this leaderboard is getting 82 ESI aprox.

  5. MyOwnWorstEnemy's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola


    In my experience, ESI can be fairly easy to calculate. If you beat a score by the slighest unit, you will get 1 point, if you beat a record with double the points you will get a maximum of 2 points. So for example in this leaderboard you posted, there are 43 records, Andrew is in 1st place with 525 points, he is getting 2 points for every score below 260 and aprox 1 for ever score above 260.

    So he is getting 2 points for beating 40 scores = 80

    and 1 point for scores above 260 = 2

    The 1st place in this leaderboard is getting 82 ESI aprox.

    I developed an ESI calculator in Excel so I can also figure out on my own. However, if ESI is the competition measuring stick, it should be transparent at the level that ESI is generated. My request is not really that of "can someone calculate it?" but rather of "why isn't it displayed?".



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  6. admin staff's Avatar

    All leaderboards are consistent now . The templates have been fixed


    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

    At this point I think the site is very nice for the most part, not major complaints. There is two things that I would change if I could.

    1. Fix the issue with the avatar not showing in the game leaderboards.

    2. Give the general leaderboards a better look. They look kind of messy and there is no consistency, some look different than others.

    ThanksLuigi Ruffolo, starcrytas, Barthax thanked this post
  7. omega175's Avatar

    Great news, thanks.

    How about showing how long a player keeps the record/high score? Let's say someone has a high score for 10-20 years and would like to revisit the game and make a new submission with a new high score. The board just shows the current high score of the player, so if one submits now, it looks like he's been holding that high score as #1 from let's say today, but not for the last 10-20 years. I think that's a very important feature to have and to display. Right now, one could try to submit a new high score, but he/she may not want to do that to preserve high score longevity. If TG displayed amount of days/months or years that the player keeps the #1 spot, more players might be interested in improving their high score.

    If this is more difficult to implement, how about showing player's history of submissions for a given game? I think that's a very important historical fact that should be easy to access in one place. This would apply to any score, not just #1.

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  8. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by omega175

    If this is more difficult to implement, how about showing player's history of submissions for a given game? I think that's a very important historical fact that should be easy to access in one place. This would apply to any score, not just #1.


    It may be the pre-TGSAP information on that is lost (it was definitely there pre-2009 changes but I'm not 100% it was in the 2010 version). For all TGSAP scores, click "View All Submissions" to see them all for that track (just mentioning in case you were unaware).

    - we can still compete with removed accpected [meh] scores.

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    Updated 09-12-2020 at 02:43 AM by Barthax
  9. Barthax's Avatar

    @Jace Hall Just while your eyes are on the site updates. I have some achievements on a platform which does not yet exist in the scoreboard. I know you've mentioned it's currently a bit of a hurdle for to expand the scoreboard with a new platform. If I were to, for example, create new tracks under "Novelty" platform would this be a much bigger hurdle for you guys later when/if a platform is added?

    (Note: not mentioning the specific platform because I'm aware I still haven't creating tracks on other platforms I've requested... They're not forgotten!)


  10. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    @Jace Hall Just while your eyes are on the site updates. I have some achievements on a platform which does not yet exist in the scoreboard. I know you've mentioned it's currently a bit of a hurdle for to expand the scoreboard with a new platform. If I were to, for example, create new tracks under "Novelty" platform would this be a much bigger hurdle for you guys later when/if a platform is added?

    (Note: not mentioning the specific platform because I'm aware I still haven't creating tracks on other platforms I've requested... They're not forgotten!)


    What platform do you need added?

  11. kernzyp's Avatar

    All is well as far as I can see. The only thing I would like, is for PAL and NTSC ESI to be merged, somehow,
    For example, I have over 500 records for GT3, but I am lower than someone using NTSC with hundreds less.
    ESI is not score based, in this area, it's based on how many people have scored less than the leader.
    My times are faster than many of these entries, but I am not even close to what my ESI really is. If I am in that leader board, I should be in competition with the others, or there needs to be two different leader boards.
    Just a pipe dream shot in the dark.
    And the profile picture on leader boards is not fixed, yet...

  12. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    What platform do you need added?

    Thanks, it's:

    Sinclair QL

  13. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by kernzyp

    All is well as far as I can see. The only thing I would like, is for PAL and NTSC ESI to be merged, somehow,
    For example, I have over 500 records for GT3, but I am lower than someone using NTSC with hundreds less.
    ESI is not score based, in this area, it's based on how many people have scored less than the leader.
    My times are faster than many of these entries, but I am not even close to what my ESI really is. If I am in that leader board, I should be in competition with the others, or there needs to be two different leader boards.
    Just a pipe dream shot in the dark.
    And the profile picture on leader boards is not fixed, yet...


    Hey @admin staff can you please implement this and also fix the missing profile picture stuff?

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  14. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax


    Thanks, it's:

    Sinclair QL


    Hey @SincerelyFranny or @admin staff - please add "Sinclair QL" to the platforms. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_QL)

    Thank you.

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  15. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by kernzyp

    All is well as far as I can see. The only thing I would like, is for PAL and NTSC ESI to be merged, somehow,
    For example, I have over 500 records for GT3, but I am lower than someone using NTSC with hundreds less.
    ESI is not score based, in this area, it's based on how many people have scored less than the leader.
    My times are faster than many of these entries, but I am not even close to what my ESI really is. If I am in that leader board, I should be in competition with the others, or there needs to be two different leader boards.
    Just a pipe dream shot in the dark.
    And the profile picture on leader boards is not fixed, yet...


    ESI doesn't compare them because they're not the same. Just because a game was released for both regional specs, doesn't mean they are equal and so traditionally TG keeps them separate. For your achievements to be comparable to the NTSC regional spec variations, you have to play the NTSC version.


    [Edit:] Also, from memory, I think Shaun has also confirmed the JP version differs from the US version of GT3. So the scoreboard stating "NTSC" without a sub-region doesn't actually make sense for this particular game either. ;)

    Likeskernzyp liked this post
    Updated 09-12-2020 at 08:09 AM by Barthax
  16. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    ESI doesn't compare them because they're not the same. Just because a game was released for both regional specs, doesn't mean they are equal and so traditionally TG keeps them separate. For your achievements to be comparable to the NTSC regional spec variations, you have to play the NTSC version.

    Hey @admin staff - @Barthax is correct in this so let's hold off on the previous request.

    Hey @kernzyp - it looks like the total ESI is already combined for PAL and NTSC tracks at the top level of Atari 2600 ESI measurement (for example). I think thats about as far as it could logically work.

    Someone with a score of 1000 on an NTSC track is not the same as someone with a score of 1000 on the similar PAL track, so PAL and NTSC cant directly compete...

    Thankskernzyp thanked this post
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    Updated 09-12-2020 at 08:16 AM by Jace Hall
  17. kernzyp's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    ESI doesn't compare them because they're not the same. Just because a game was released for both regional specs, doesn't mean they are equal and so traditionally TG keeps them separate. For your achievements to be comparable to the NTSC regional spec variations, you have to play the NTSC version.

    I know. So why are the tracks kept separate, and the leader board merged?
    It needs a separate leader board, or the ESI to be time based, equally.
    So, it's a separate leader board, then... ;)
    Do tell, does it matter if it's a US NTSC or Japanese, are both accepted?
    Cheers guys.
    P.s., if it's too much bother to do what I asked, don't waste your time, guys. It's only me that asked. Nothing's changed...
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  18. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by kernzyp
    I know. So why are the tracks kept separate, and the leader board merged?
    It needs a separate leader board, or the ESI to be time based, equally.
    So, it's a separate leader board, then... ;)
    Do tell, does it matter if it's a US NTSC or Japanese, are both accepted?
    Cheers guys.
    P.s., if it's too much bother to do what I asked, don't waste your time, guys. It's only me that asked. Nothing's changed...

    Leaderboard is merged because something like Atari 2600 PAL and Atari 2600 NTSC are not currently considered 2 different platforms. I think we want to avoid this kind of duplication.

    Honestly if you want to max your ESI on a platform that has NTSC tracks and PAL tracks you need to compete on both track types and beat people wherever they may be!

  19. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by kernzyp



    I know. So why are the tracks kept separate, and the leader board merged?
    It needs a separate leader board, or the ESI to be time based, equally.
    So, it's a separate leader board, then... ;)
    Do tell, does it matter if it's a US NTSC or Japanese, are both accepted?
    Cheers guys.
    P.s., if it's too much bother to do what I asked, don't waste your time, guys. It's only me that asked. Nothing's changed...

    ESI is nothing to do with the game or platform - it's about comparing precise circumstances against each other. As there are known differences between the two regions (minute though some maybe in the case of GT3) they are kept separate "just in case". So while, perceptively, your IA-1 license time can be compared with Shaun's IA-1 time, there's possibly some timing differences due to the region of the console (and it is definitely there in other games).

    For the sake of comparing "all PAL gamers" and "all NTSC gamers" on a given game, yes, it makes sense to separate the ESI at the game level. Is that what you're referring to? Perhaps I misunderstood earlier...

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  20. kernzyp's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    Hey @admin staff - @Barthax is correct in this so let's hold off on the previous request.

    Hey @kernzyp - it looks like the total ESI is already combined for PAL and NTSC tracks at the top level of Atari 2600 ESI measurement (for example). I think thats about as far as it could logically work.

    Someone with a score of 1000 on an NTSC track is not the same as someone with a score of 1000 on the similar PAL track, so PAL and NTSC cant directly compete...

    My idea was to merge the ESI for both NTSC and PAL on the same game, as both are in the same leader board, instead of having their own leader boards. I am using PAL, Shaun and most others are using NTSC, but we are in the same table, when the tracks are kept separate.
    (This was just for Gran Turismo 3 on PS2.)
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