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Jace Hall
02-24-2021 at 04:10 PM
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Repost - Crypto?

I posted this in response to @RedDawn 's Wall post, but it may have been missed by most. Also I wanted to add a thought to it.. Wondering if anyone has any additional thoughts...

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As TG continues to improve itself and the community grows, there has been an increasing positive sentiment and desire to contribute expressed from the membership and public.

Currently, TG has no advertisements, no donation mechanism, no merchandise, etc. All of the ongoing costs of operation are paid for by TG ownership.

While it is always great to offer free service to people in the spirit of community, fun, and achievement recognition, the fact that the ownership must pay for everything at any given moment certainly creates limitations on how fast and how much improvement can be accomplished.

I think there are many community members who would like to see more done and a faster pace, and they are willing to contribute to help make that happen if there was some reasonable way to do so.

I've been thinking about the various ways that this may be accomplished, and of course there are pros/cons to every method.

After careful evaluation, the most interesting solution I believe may be for TG to create its own Cryptocurrency.

This would allow people to buy the currency and own it, and eventually its value may increase as TG continues to develop and then makes use of the currency for tournament/contest/event prize money, submission point conversion, TG merchandise purchases, certificates, etc.

Specifically want to call out the idea of allowing submission points to have some kind of conversion ability into the crypto - I think that could be interesting...

I'm reasonably confident that I have enough industry relationships to eventually help facilitate the step-by-step business deals required for TG currency to potentially be accepted or awarded at other locations, be it websites or physical locations - and eventually get it on the crypto exchanges.

The money received by TG from the initial currency sale would be directly used to improve the site and meet all the feature requests the community asks for much more quickly.

In my view this solution may be better than a donation button or putting up ads and etc. Its a way for the community to contribute and not only get a better TG with more resources, but also own something that specifically can go up in value as TG improves along with it.

Anyway, that's been my current thinking as one possible direction.

Opinions are welcome. Please express your thoughts.

Comments
  1. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Are you saying one could convert Submission Points into currency and/or buy currency and exchange it for submission points? That sounds great to me. Lately I find myself running out of SP and limiting the number of scores I submit for this same reason.

    I would much prefer to spend some money and have a bunch of submission points than spend hours upon hours reviewing other's scores when I could be playing games.

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  2. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

    Are you saying one could convert Submission Points into currency and/or buy currency and exchange it for submission points? That sounds great to me. Lately I find myself running out of SP and limiting the number of scores I submit for this same reason.

    I would much prefer to spend some money and have a bunch of submission points than spend hours upon hours reviewing other's scores when I could be playing games.

    Yes. This is correct.

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  3. RedDawn's Avatar

    Personally I dont care for the idea of ads, though I can understand the reasoning behind it, but I LOVE the thought of a TG Crypto, TG Merch, and some kind of donation button. I would most definitely make use of all those.

    For those that may not have seen my post on the topic I'll just reiterate what I said there, if it was made possible for members to 'tip', or donate crypto, to other members submissions in the same way Twitter and Reddit do with the Brave browser's Tip function I believe this could potentially have a very large impact, as it would actually allow what has been the dream of many gamers since the inception of Video Games; to be paid for ones exceptional gameplay.

    I see this as beneficial for everyone, but TG itself would probably make out best, as over time it would draw in many new gamers who would make a permanent home at TG if they were able to make a living here like they can with places like Youtube and Twitch.

    All around a brilliant, forward-thinking idea that I think could help Twin Galaxies rise to heights never before seen.

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  4. Ninglendo's Avatar

    A wise man once said : "Site that is full of bugs and can't handle certificates, can't handle crypto currency." I think Confucius said that, but I could be wrong.

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  5. datagod's Avatar

    I have been mining Ether the past year and learning about blockchains and crypto in general.

    Have you given thought to using an existing currency such as ETHER and using Etherium as the platform?

    Either way, count me in.

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  6. The Evener's Avatar

    Picking up on point raised by Ninglendo, could TG look at a quick retool of its certificate offerings and push that out to the world again? I know you said earlier that TG is not in the paper printing business or something like that, but that was then, and this is now.

    Given all the different score tracking sites out there, I think we all agree that TG certificates were a unique element of TG's history and a clear differentiator from other scoreboards. Instead of aiming for the high end, uniquely authenticated $100 cert, could we aim for something more middle of the road? Maybe outsource to a third party that prints for a living, charge $50-$60 and take home a little money? I see all of these sites that offer mugs and T-shirts/swag with "insert your business logo here" that are basically outsourced platforms for a "manufacture on demand" type of situation. It's just something TG can push as a value added for those interested - submit your score here, get a certificate for it, just like Wiebe got in KoK (sorry, I had to reference the film as it still serves as a reference for a lot of non-TG members). Besides, with Guinness apparently taking a crap, it seems that TG certs would be a reasonable (more desirable) alternative to some seeking GWR certs.

    Back to currency - Maybe I'm a stogy Gen-Xer, but crypto-currency is still a bit mysterious and weird to me, try as I may to understand it thoroughly. But I'm game to try anything to support TG.

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  7. datagod's Avatar

    Crypto currencies are something I have a recent facination with. Just another talent to add to my talent stack (see Scott Adams for more details ).

    Please see my recent blog entry

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    Updated 02-25-2021 at 06:53 AM by datagod
  8. Blackflag82's Avatar

    I like the idea of this, though I do share the concern Glen raises. And as an extension of that, I wonder if getting some of the functionality that's been talked about for ages could be established to create an environment in which commerce could exist locally? some examples that come to mind-

    tournament section - idk where things are at with this, I think the last time beta testing was occurring there was this incredibly complex and unique platform that never fully materialized. I think that is an awesome goal to shoot for, but man it would be great to just have a basic ability to create some basic tournaments. It seems like TG already had that in place given the hosting of some of the tournaments in the background that occurred, so just tweaking that a bit perhaps and then adding some functionality that allows basic financial operations. You could create a subscription service for tournament creation profiles (members who want to host tournaments can get a subscription (possibly tiered with a set number up to unlimited creation on a year by year basis with a corresponding rate). You could also allow the tournaments to accept entry fees and award monetary prizes (TG taking a small processing cut of the total entry fee ie paypal if they wanted to go that route).

    Bounty system - another one that was mentioned as being developed, but would be really useful for community participation and for pulling in new people.

    Certificates - I agree with what The Evener wrote above...out source it to a company, and take the free money.

    Merch - Get some merch created...again, just out source it and take the money.

    Once those are in place, there would be an ecosystem that involves more than just submission points with which to plug a cryptocurrency into while also creating a steady (albeit small) passive income stream for TG.


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  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    if sub points are converted into the crypto currency thats an extra step from having the sub points themselves be the currecny. all you would need to do for that is make sub points transferrable. i believe magic the gathering online has changed alot but 10 years ago "tickets" would cost $1, and 2 were needed to enter an event. these tickets quickly became the ingame currecny where we'd use them to by cards from each other. submission points are already very much a tg currency they're just lacking the very important aspect of being transferable.

    now the issue i see with directly making them tradable (and therefore a currency) as well as indirectly making them a currency by allowing them to buy the currency is how much it would increase blind voting.

    the moment submissions point can turn into some sort of real world value i see swarms of blind voting even automated voting. yes the problem would be seen and resolved, by likely halting the system and then cleaning up, better to prevent it in the first place.


    note: this isnt me trying to be negative i'm trying to help find problems to avoid them preemptively. i really do love the idea.

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  10. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Just setup a Patreon or SubscribeStar. That way if things go south and promises arent kept people can back out of their investment easily. It's already been mentioned on this thread all the things that were already promised and never delivered or completely botched. I don't trust crypto as is but I certainly wouldn't trust it from a site where the Recent Activity feed hasn't worked for me in almost 2 years.

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  11. datagod's Avatar

    If people doubt the value in trading of digital assets, let me tell you two things:

    1. I sold a TG Hoodie (in game item code) for 5 US dollars.

    2. TG Hoodies 1 year later were being sold for well over 1000 dollars.

    With NFTs (Non Fungible Tokens), the original artist/creator can dictate royalties to be paid upon resale. We already spoke about digital version of certificates, why not make them official by leveraging crypto? There are plenty of collectors out there. Mark Cuban is a big supporter of NFT trading cards. I think it is very interesting to discuss.

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    Updated 02-25-2021 at 09:52 AM by datagod
  12. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    Just setup a Patreon or SubscribeStar. That way if things go south and promises arent kept people can back out of their investment easily. It's already been mentioned on this thread all the things that were already promised and never delivered or completely botched. I don't trust crypto as is but I certainly wouldn't trust it from a site where the Recent Activity feed hasn't worked for me in almost 2 years.

    What recent activity feed are you referring to? On which page? I'm not aware of the issue. The feed works fine on all computers we've tested....

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  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    A wise man once said : "Site that is full of bugs and can't handle certificates, can't handle crypto currency." I think Confucius said that, but I could be wrong.

  14. Ninglendo's Avatar

    I'm on the computer at work but it's the same for both my computers at home.

  15. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82

    I like the idea of this, though I do share the concern Glen raises. And as an extension of that, I wonder if getting some of the functionality that's been talked about for ages could be established to create an environment in which commerce could exist locally? some examples that come to mind-

    tournament section - idk where things are at with this, I think the last time beta testing was occurring there was this incredibly complex and unique platform that never fully materialized. I think that is an awesome goal to shoot for, but man it would be great to just have a basic ability to create some basic tournaments. It seems like TG already had that in place given the hosting of some of the tournaments in the background that occurred, so just tweaking that a bit perhaps and then adding some functionality that allows basic financial operations. You could create a subscription service for tournament creation profiles (members who want to host tournaments can get a subscription (possibly tiered with a set number up to unlimited creation on a year by year basis with a corresponding rate). You could also allow the tournaments to accept entry fees and award monetary prizes (TG taking a small processing cut of the total entry fee ie paypal if they wanted to go that route).

    Bounty system - another one that was mentioned as being developed, but would be really useful for community participation and for pulling in new people.

    Certificates - I agree with what The Evener wrote above...out source it to a company, and take the free money.

    Merch - Get some merch created...again, just out source it and take the money.

    Once those are in place, there would be an ecosystem that involves more than just submission points with which to plug a cryptocurrency into while also creating a steady (albeit small) passive income stream for TG.

    The things listed above are items I would really want TG to have and I'm sure will one day eventually have. However, as you can imagine, each of these items require further significant economic investment and time to complete and integrate properly.

    It is what it is.

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  16. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    if sub points are converted into the crypto currency thats an extra step from having the sub points themselves be the currecny. all you would need to do for that is make sub points transferrable. i believe magic the gathering online has changed alot but 10 years ago "tickets" would cost $1, and 2 were needed to enter an event. these tickets quickly became the ingame currecny where we'd use them to by cards from each other. submission points are already very much a tg currency they're just lacking the very important aspect of being transferable.

    now the issue i see with directly making them tradable (and therefore a currency) as well as indirectly making them a currency by allowing them to buy the currency is how much it would increase blind voting.

    the moment submissions point can turn into some sort of real world value i see swarms of blind voting even automated voting. yes the problem would be seen and resolved, by likely halting the system and then cleaning up, better to prevent it in the first place.


    note: this isnt me trying to be negative i'm trying to help find problems to avoid them preemptively. i really do love the idea.

    Your comment here is insightful.

    Essentially Submission Points are the TG currency, and they are "mined" through the human labor of adjudication essentially.

    If TG created a crypto, and then converted SP to that coin, and did nothing else further, it would facilitate the ability for users to transfer value between each other. As you point out that has its plusses and minuses.

    However, on the whole I think it may create some unique opportunities for the userbase to accrue value and do interesting things with it.

    All great comments in this thread. Appreciate those who are participating. Lots to think about!

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  17. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    I'm on the computer at work but it's the same for both my computers at home.

    Are you running any kind of blocking software?

    I'm assuming the TG front page would also have a giant blank area below the Active Leaderboards section?

    Does it show up on your phone?

    Here is what the wall feed page should look like:

    Is anyone else having the same problem as @Ninglendo ?


  18. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    However, as you can imagine, each of these items require further significant economic investment and time to complete and integrate properly.

    It is what it is.

    These two would take less than 10 hours total to implement and would immediately generate funds for TG which could be set aside to finish developing the tournament system and start/finish the bounty system

    Certificates - You have all the files, it would be simply finding a third party that could fulfill the orders (don't worry about the watermarked paper). TG could easily bring in $30-40+ for every certificate and aside from a few hours of initial set up, not have to lift a finger

    Merch - you've already got a logo, slap it on some hoodies, shirts, hats and a coffee mug, and let sales happen or not happen at their own pace.

    You don't even have to make a page for it you can just throw it up on a wall post with links and people will periodically ask about it and some long term member will repost the links. You've got a bunch of people who would love to throw money at you as passive income, and you're response is "it is what it is"

    I mean, I guess...

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  19. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82


    These two would take less than 10 hours total to implement and would immediately generate funds for TG which could be set aside to finish developing the tournament system and start/finish the bounty system

    Certificates - You have all the files, it would be simply finding a third party that could fulfill the orders (don't worry about the watermarked paper). TG could easily bring in $30-40+ for every certificate and aside from a few hours of initial set up, not have to lift a finger

    Merch - you've already got a logo, slap it on some hoodies, shirts, hats and a coffee mug, and let sales happen or not happen at their own pace.

    You don't even have to make a page for it you can just throw it up on a wall post with links and people will periodically ask about it and some long term member will repost the links. You've got a bunch of people who would love to throw money at you as passive income, and you're response is "it is what it is"

    I mean, I guess...

    Sounds simple. I appreciate your perspective.

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  20. Snowflake's Avatar

    something else to consider. member leaderboards. we already have most submission points. if the currency is to be something other than sub point, i would suggest having a leaderboard as well for "most jacebucks", "most jacebucks bought directly from tg", "most jacebucks spent at tg". dont underestimate peoples willingness to spend money for no reason other than to climb a money spent leaderboard.

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