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JasonV91
02-16-2017 at 09:16 PM
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Considering some arcade submissions, but...

Up to this point, all my submissions to TG have been on the MAME platform, but since discovering there's a decent-sized arcade not too far away (thanks for the tip @timmell), I'm considering a few submissions on the arcade platform as well. The one potential issue I see is getting access to the inside of the machines - I'm not sure if the owners would allow me to pull machines out and poke around in them, and I'd rather not have to go through the hassle unless it was absolutely necessary.

Along those lines, I know we're typically sticklers here for seeing the board and DIPs (which I think is good), but I was wondering if this was absolutely necessary for games where the DIPs can be determined simply by watching the gameplay (i.e. the number of starting lives on Frogger). The first game I was looking to submit for is Jr. Pac-Man turbo - the discussion on the thread for the first place score seemed to suggest showing the DIPs was not entirely necessary - https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/153157

Anyway, I'll be playing the games regardless, but I'm trying to get a feel from the community on this so as not to waste the effort of recording a submission that has no chance of being accepted. Any and all feedback is appreciated...thanks.
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  1. datagod's Avatar
    Talk to the owner of the Arcade. Explain that you want to set some records there. The world will be watching!! I know quite a few owners that are very helpful and will let you show the dip switch settings.

    For marathons some even install a rope barrier with red carpet! (Full Blast Arcade)
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  2. CWK's Avatar
    The problem of not showing the dips may not be a problem on some games but without seeing the pcb the problem is knowing whether or not it was played on a Mame cab or a bootleg pcb. Ultimately all adjudications play out differently so it's really up to the crowd. Thank Nintendo for killing most arcades =(
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  3. swaggers's Avatar
    I think by not showing the insides at best you are slowing the process as some people will abstain and at worst you are going to hurt your submission as others vote no. So I would definitely ask about showing the insides.
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  4. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    On games where settings can be confirmed visually, I've had THREE arcade platform submissions approved without showing the board. Here's my advice, though, through the course of the adjudication discussion:

    Reset the machine. Get the run you want, then power off/on the machine so we can see the boot-up of the ROM. Proves it's not MAME and you get to see the scramble pattern if any.

    NOW, having said that, just ask the dudes or dudettes at the arcade ahead of time about accessing the inside. Call and say when you'll be there and make sure you have their support. Tell them you'll put their name and location on the submission to TG, a Guinness-recognized affiliate for video game adjudication. They probably already know what TG is but no guarantee. The arcade in Erie where I set the Final Fight record wasn't aware of this organization but was thrilled to accommodate my needs. The tech was on site when I showed up and helped me get footage of the board.

    Basically go ahead and make a call. Feel it out. If there are machines that can have settings verified visually, and the arcade won't accommodate the help in seeing
    the boards, just go for those. But if on those visually-verifiable machines you also have help from a tech, show the boards as often as you can.
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  5. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    I want to reiterate - make an appointment. Business owners respect that. It shows you value their time.

    Also some machines can't be switched off/on due to various hardware issues. There was a Ms. Pac-Man in Erie that I tried to do this with and the switch was hard wired closed because the switch itself was faulty. So check this before you roll film if you're going with the power off/on method for visually verifiable machines.
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  6. The Evener's Avatar
    The business of playing in the arcade seems more difficult than it should be. I thought the previous iteration of TG talked about having >trusted arcades> where the machines/settings were validated in advance for TG competition. One problem is that the same game could have multiple tracks so you would still need to get someone to confirm settings if you wanted to change tracks.

    Perhaps theres no way around it. Just seems too bad someone cant walk into Funspot, record their game, and submit to TG.
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  7. datagod's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener
    Perhaps theres no way around it. Just seems too bad someone cant walk into Funspot, record their game, and submit to TG.
    People do go into Funspot record games and submit without showing the dip switch settings. As an adjudicator, I want to see the dip switch settings, even at Funspot. They supposedly have a policy of using TG settings, but that is just a policy, not proof.

    I tend to abstain from those adjudications.
  8. The Evener's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod
    People do go into Funspot record games and submit without showing the dip switch settings. As an adjudicator, I want to see the dip switch settings, even at Funspot. They supposedly have a policy of using TG settings, but that is just a policy, not proof.

    I tend to abstain from those adjudications.
    If Funspot has a policy and there is a TG recognition-agreement of this policy then that would be great or at least I would be willing to accept the risk with a trusted arcade. Maybe its just my personality but I would prefer to have the option of heading into Funspot and record an attempt without tracking down staff and having them on-hand to open up the game, never mind if I actually manage to get a high score for submission to make it worth their bother.
    Updated 02-17-2017 at 10:28 AM by The Evener
  9. Snowflake's Avatar
    Sure, if Jace actually had trusted refs he can send to site and verify the machines were all good, awesome. But thats not the case. Instead some sites have just built up a reputation. I'm not a fan of reputation. We've all seen companies build up a good reputation, and once they have name brand recognition they get lazy. I dont care if someone has been trustworthy for 20 years, on the 21st year i still want to see the evidence.

    Let me ask you this, is there any submitter you trust so much that they dont have to show a board? If you dont trust any submitter that much when they're focused on a specific run, why would you trust an arcade with lots of machines and lots of employees to have the settings all correct?

    Especially if you're setting a record. When you're going for 1st place you're helping bring attention to the arcade. Honestly, any arcade that doesnt care enough to let you show the boards I highly doubt cares enough to keep everything tournament legal. It sucks but there it is.

    I can vouch that the local arcade for me -- John Salter's full blast arcade -- doesnt just help out 1st place, he'll help last place. If you're terrible at game, but want to submit anyway, he'll do what he can to help. Thats the sort of arcade I want to give my business to.
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  10. HAN's Avatar
    Just want to echo what @datagod and @bensweeneyonbass have already said:

    Call ahead and talk to someone in charge, or talk to the person that will be there when you want to record your run.

    Working at Galloping Ghost, we get this all the time. Most recently @dustmop came in all the way from Brooklyn, New York to set the Ghosts 'N Goblins World Record. He msg'd me back and forth and I was able to work with him to make sure everything he needed to make his trip a success was going to happen.

    We did the whole "velvet rope" thing and also promoted his attempts for him - it works both ways. The arcade can promote the player, and the player will promote the arcade by getting friends/family to come out or at least tune in to a live stream.



    If the arcade is set up to live stream, I'd recommend that. It leaves very little doubt that everything done is legit, as its in real time.

    I hope everything works out for you!

    - Pete
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    Updated 02-17-2017 at 12:26 PM by HAN
  11. datagod's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener
    If Funspot has a policy and there is a TG recognition-agreement of this policy then that would be great or at least I would be willing to accept the risk with a trusted arcade. Maybe its just my personality but I would prefer to have the option of heading into Funspot and record an attempt without tracking down staff and having them on-hand to open up the game, never mind if I actually manage to get a high score for submission to make it worth their bother.
    The great thing about the adjudication process is that each submission is treated independently. All we are asked to do is view the performance and vote if we believe there is enough evidence to prove that it is a legit attempt and they followed the rules of the track.

    Sometimes you cannot show dip switches, but you can explain as you play the game that the desired track settings are in fact active.

    You just need to convince the adjudicators. Some people are hard nosed, others are not. When questioned, provide further evidence, polite explanations, etc.

    Go for it!
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  12. dauber's Avatar
    Also might want to ask the owner of the arcade to not have any copyrighted music playing, as if you submit a video with copyrighted music in it, that'll get you a lifetime ban. (Or mute the sound before you submit it.) Heh...there actually *was* copyrighted music playing in mine, but it was so far in the background that it was barely audible.

    And literally the day my world record in the game was officially accepted, I managed to do *this* but didn't have it video recorded...argghgh!!!
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  13. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dauber
    Also might want to ask the owner of the arcade to not have any copyrighted music playing, as if you submit a video with copyrighted music in it, that'll get you a lifetime ban. (Or mute the sound before you submit it.) Heh...there actually *was* copyrighted music playing in mine, but it was so far in the background that it was barely audible.

    And literally the day my world record in the game was officially accepted, I managed to do *this* but didn't have it video recorded...argghgh!!!
    @Jace Hall hasn't this rule been modified? I know it's still present on the Help/Info section of this site, but I thought the performance recording was transformative of the music itself, and that TG hosted video with copyrighted music was permissible now.
  14. Snowflake's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dauber
    Also might want to ask the owner of the arcade to not have any copyrighted music playing, as if you submit a video with copyrighted music in it, that'll get you a lifetime ban. (Or mute the sound before you submit it.) Heh...there actually *was* copyrighted music playing in mine, but it was so far in the background that it was barely audible.

    And literally the day my world record in the game was officially accepted, I managed to do *this* but didn't have it video recorded...argghgh!!!
    I believe the ban is for intentionally doing it. It would be nice if the arcade didnt play the music, but at that point, I dont expect them to change how the entire arcade works for just one person. Music is in most arcade submissions. Its unavoidable (or almost unavoidable). Dont be afraid to submit due to some music thats not your fault
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  15. Snowflake's Avatar
    Direct uplod does help keep your video from coming down though. If you tube blocks your video because of the music, probably not much you can do. If its directly uploaded though, TG has the resources to keep the video up.
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  16. timmell's Avatar
    Jason, let do it LIVE! To the world!
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  17. JasonV91's Avatar
    Thanks for all the feedback guys - some great info and suggestions here for sure. I made a trip up to the arcade last night to play, and spoke to the person working the desk - while he wasn't aware of anyone previously making a record attempt there, he said he wouldn't have a problem with me filming a run. As for getting inside the machine, he said I'd have to talk to the owner, so no real surprise there. Just for kicks, I filmed the first hour of a makeshift run using my phone...the footage turned out ok, but obviously I'd set up a camera for an actual submission, would just need to get into the machine if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGA HAN
    We did the whole "velvet rope" thing and also promoted his attempts for him - it works both ways. The arcade can promote the player, and the player will promote the arcade by getting friends/family to come out or at least tune in to a live stream.

    If the arcade is set up to live stream, I'd recommend that. It leaves very little doubt that everything done is legit, as its in real time.
    That's pretty awesome Pete! It's great that places like Galloping Ghost and Full Blast (where @Snowflake did his recent Qubes run) are so accommodating to gamers looking to set records - I'll have to make it a point to visit these arcades somewhere down the line. Not sure whether the place I'm looking at would be willing to go this far, but I'd be happy with just getting inside the machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by dauber
    And literally the day my world record in the game was officially accepted, I managed to do *this* but didn't have it video recorded...argghgh!!!
    The pic you tried attaching didn't come through, but I'm assuming it was a higher score on Jr. Pac turbo?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmell
    Jason, let do it LIVE! To the world!
    I'd be willing to do it live no problem, but not sure how to work out the logistics of that, doesn't seem the arcade is set up for live streaming the way Pete mentioned GG was. Heck I'm still trying to figure out who I can borrow a camera from...got any extras from the studio lying around?
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  18. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    Got a laptop? Webcam that stuff yo.
  19. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    Bring a TV tray and a laptop into the arcade (and an extension cord) and you can get all the footage you need.
  20. timmell's Avatar
    We will do the commentary an bring the equipment.
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