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JJT_Defender
12-07-2019 at 06:59 AM
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@Jace & TG members Why Funspot arcade,will not allow players to record Dip Switch game settings?

1. Why did Funspot arcade stop letting players record dip switch game settings? The real reason.

Question to Jace Hall -> 2. Is their a feud, a misunderstanding,something bad happened in the past between Twin Galaxy staff/members & Funspot employee,management,owner,tech etc.?

Here below in the link from WR performance from the Great awesome player Pete Hahn,he could not record TG dip switch game settings & their are 8 difficulty settings that can be selected. Do we trust word of mouth. TGSAP requires that we show it.

3. Are we going back to Referee & the group saw it & vote Yes?

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/211766-Arcade-Black-Dragon-Points-2-641-500-Pete?p=1062752&viewfull=1#post1062752

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  1. datagod's Avatar

    1. The real reason is they host ACAM which is a museum that lets you play games. They are a non profit organization with limited staff. They don't want to be opening their cabinets for every player wanting to set a record.

    2. Something bad happened in 2009 during the Funspot tournament. Twin Galaxies staff at the time were very disrespectful to the staff and ownership of Funspot. They were banned permanently after that.

    I am on the fence with showing settings. On one hand I want full evidence, on the other I should be able to tell from game play what those settings are. I understand when arcade operators don't want people filming the inside of their machines.

    You would not believe the reaction that @Marcade and I got at the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas. We were looking for a very specific serial number on the pinball machine Twilight Zone. Rudy Ferret had the high score on that exact machine and we wanted to beat it. The owner got VERY upset when he saw us looking for a serial number. He thought we were from the manufacturer, checking up on the machine. If he has a new machine from an aunauthorized area, he could lost his relationship with that manufacturer. Of course we were able to explain that we were just two regular guys looking to break the world record. He was very helpful after that.

    I hope that made sense.

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  2. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    In the case with Arcade game Black Dragon the japanese version of Black Tiger american version

    You cannot tell by watch game play on the arcade game Black Dragon,which of the 8 difficulty settings that it was set to, nobody can, that would be a lie,fabrication, totally ridiculous & absurd. I played the game.

    example Todd Rogers I did 5.51 on Dragster or a Billy Mitchell I did a million points on Donkey Kong on the real arcade. common now that is all BS.

    In my opinion, the reason certain Twin Galaxy members just want to beat All of Triforce & be done with it & to make example, he is not well liked by certain TG members here. so it would be easy to set it on the easiest difficulty settings, Whether that happened or not I do not know.

    #1 I JJT completely sure that Pete Hahn can beat the score on Black Dragon on TG settings if the Dip Switch settings were recorded.

    http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/ARC...ack%20Tiger%20[Instructions]%20[English].pdf

    Here is the official arcade manual for the game american version Black Tiger note the japanese version Black Dragon with dip switch game settings.

    The harder the difficulty their are more enemies and are more aggressive & a lot more shots coming at you, therefore the game is harder to complete on 1 credit. as well as scoring is different.
    Dip switch B

    1. Easy Sw 3 = OFF , Sw 4 = OFF, Sw 5 = OFF

    2. Easy 1 Sw 3 = ON, Sw 4 = ON, Sw 5 = OFF

    3. Easy 2 Sw 3 = OFF, Sw 4 = ON, Sw 5 = OFF

    4. Easy 3 Sw 3 = ON, Sw 4 = OFF, Sw 5 = OFF

    5. Normal Sw 3 = OFF , Sw 4 = OFF , Sw 5 = ON

    6. Difficult Sw 3 = ON , Sw 4 = OFF, Sw 5 = ON

    7. Difficult 2 Sw 3 = OFF, Sw 4 = ON, Sw 5 = ON

    8. Very Difficult Sw 3 = ON, Sw 4 =ON, Sw 5 = ON


    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    1. The real reason is they host ACAM which is a museum that lets you play games. They are a non profit organization with limited staff. They don't want to be opening their cabinets for every player wanting to set a record.

    2. Something bad happened in 2009 during the Funspot tournament. Twin Galaxies staff at the time were very disrespectful to the staff and ownership of Funspot. They were banned permanently after that.

    I am on the fence with showing settings. On one hand I want full evidence, on the other I should be able to tell from game play what those settings are. I understand when arcade operators don't want people filming the inside of their machines.

    You would not believe the reaction that @Marcade and I got at the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas. We were looking for a very specific serial number on the pinball machine Twilight Zone. Rudy Ferret had the high score on that exact machine and we wanted to beat it. The owner got VERY upset when he saw us looking for a serial number. He thought we were from the manufacturer, checking up on the machine. If he has a new machine from an aunauthorized area, he could lost his relationship with that manufacturer. Of course we were able to explain that we were just two regular guys looking to break the world record. He was very helpful after that.

    I hope that made sense.

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    Updated 12-07-2019 at 09:09 AM by JJT_Defender
  3. Fly's Avatar

    If you're not expert enough to tell what the settings are from watching just abstain from voting. I've told you that on some of my submissions. You can't be an expert on EVERYTHING and vote on EVERYTHING. Just let it go and move on. I don't know the game well enough to know so I'll stay the F out. End of story.

    Hec

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  4. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    So, you believe that , just by word of mouth is good enough versus showing the actual Hardware,ROM's,CPU, Dip Switch Game Settings on a video recording.

    2. Funspot arcade should be exempt from showing anything "just believe and trust, we know we are experts" 8 difficulty settings for Black Dragon (Black Tiger) same thing for Gyrus it has 8 difficulty settings that were not shown either before or after the start of game play on a totally separate video

    3. I played the both japanese versions Black Dragon and the american counter part Black Tiger.

    4. I never questioned Pete Hahn expertise on video many games he has completed on 1 credit or wr's.

    5. I fault Funspot arcade and excuses, These are classic arcade retro games,these are not $10,000.00 to $100,000 arcade games.


    What is in question is it that only Funspot arcade does not have to show Hardware,ROM's,CPU or dip switch game settings? What makes Funspot arcade NH the exception to be exempt,excused,that they are special & "you must trust us, by our word


    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    If you're not expert enough to tell what the settings are from watching just abstain from voting. I've told you that on some of my submissions. You can't be an expert on EVERYTHING and vote on EVERYTHING. Just let it go and move on. I don't know the game well enough to know so I'll stay the F out. End of story.

    Hec

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    Updated 12-07-2019 at 08:58 AM by JJT_Defender
  5. Marcade's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    If you're not expert enough to tell what the settings are from watching just abstain from voting. I've told you that on some of my submissions. You can't be an expert on EVERYTHING and vote on EVERYTHING. Just let it go and move on. I don't know the game well enough to know so I'll stay the F out. End of story.

    Hec


    There is just no BETTER way of explaining that.

    But hey, when you are a SPAM adjudicator/forum poster, well then that ALL just goes out the window!

    God BLESS!

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  6. Fly's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by JJT_Defender

    So, you believe that , just by word of mouth is good enough versus showing the actual Hardware,ROMS,CPU, Dip Switch Game Settings on a video recording.

    No. I would watch the gameplay video. If I have an expert opinion I vote yes or no. If I am not expert enough to know I don't vote.

    I hope my words were small enough for you to get.

    Hec

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  7. Marcade's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly


    I hope my words were small enough for you to get.



    Try a larger font. OR use bold capital letters.

    (Sometimes, THAT works) ;)

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  8. JJT_Defender's Avatar


    Question

    1. How do you determine the difference of 8 Difficulty Dip Switch game settings?

    2. Show me a player that can determine 8 difficulty Dip switch game settings on the arcade game Black Dragon or Black Tiger. And explain the differences in all 8. You cannot. Please!

    This is not Donkey Kong or DKjr,PacMan,Ms PACMan, Galaxian which are easy to determine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly


    No. I would watch the gameplay video. If I have an expert opinion I vote yes or no. If I am not expert enough to know I don't vote.

    I hope my words were small enough for you to get.

    Hec

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    Updated 12-07-2019 at 08:50 AM by JJT_Defender
  9. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    Answer is simple:

    1. just call and make appointment , and make arrangements on a day to play the arcade game & show the arcade dip switch game settings.

    Datagod: 1. The real reason is they host ACAM which is a museum that lets you play games. They are a non profit organization with limited staff. They don't want to be opening their cabinets for every player wanting to set a record.

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  10. Ninglendo's Avatar

    You are no expert JJT. Even if you saw dips you wouldn't know what you were looking at. Let's be honest here.

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  11. datagod's Avatar
    JJ TT you cannot just call and make an appointment. they're not a doctor's office they're going to dentist office they're not going to give you nitrous oxygen because you have a painful tooth. they clearly have made it very obvious that they do not want to be involved in anything to do with Twin Galaxies. so if you want to go there to set world records? be prepared for the adjudication process that will question why you do not have dip switches present. some games do not have dip switches anyway. if you've ever been to fun spot you'll know that in the summertime they have hundreds of visitors it is a very busy place. their workers are run off their feet and peeing up tokens clearing jam tickets at cetera. nobody has time to hover around and arcade cabinet while a score chaser records the inside. nephew have a close relationship with the owner or senior member of staff perhaps they will make an exception. But you better be prepared to make a nice donation to the museum. because you are wasting their time.


    now all of this doesn't matter jtt because I know I can beat you at every racing game at fun spot has. I've done it before and I will do it again.
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  12. Marcade's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod
    nephew have a close relationship with the owner or senior member of staff perhaps they will make an exception.


    Really? I was .99838486739587 % sure you knew the owner well !!!

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  13. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Also JJT, I'm pretty sure there are arcade scores not from funspot that have passed without showing dip switches.


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  14. Snowflake's Avatar

    there has been some inconistency with showing board, not just because of funspot which arguable isnt special treatment so much as special case, but because of legitimate differences of opinion among adjudicators among what consittues proof. i suspect some adjudicators honetly dont care if the board is real as long as it makes no difference (such as jrok) and i disagree with decided for ourselves which rules matter, however, if someone does believe the board is real based on visiting the location themselves or something else its completley within their purview to decide if they think the rules were followed.


    further jjt you seem to be implying funspot itself is doing wrong. they are under no obligation to any player to show anything. perhaps you should ask them if you want a direct answer from them.


    also the particular title is a special case since we already had a submission on the title that didnt show board. that partiuclar machine was already deemed acceptable. even if that deicsion was wrong, for the sake of consistency it needs to be equally allowed for all


    and as was pointed out, i'm not so sure you can just call. i mean maybe you can, but i doubt it. you seem to just be guessing what the owner would do. if you can read the owners mind so well in this matter, then just read his mind in other matters as well.

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  15. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    Thank you It helps me.

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  16. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly
    If you're not expert enough to tell what the settings are from watching just abstain from voting. I've told you that on some of my submissions. You can't be an expert on EVERYTHING and vote on EVERYTHING. Just let it go and move on. I don't know the game well enough to know so I'll stay the F out. End of story



    RTM REPLY - for starters there is nothing in the current TG adjudication "guidelines" (what little guidelines that there are) which precludes non-"experts" from voting. Second, no one is an "expert" on such a vast array of titles that they can gauge settings from sight alone so as to explain how some gamers have credibility ratings in the tens of thousands so you know there are a very good number of non-"experts" voting on titles in the here and now.

    Second, decades back the same held true in the "referee era", and same held true for the PRE-referee era when Walter and his limited crew were accepting scores. The very notion that the "TGSAP" era is comprised solely of "experts" voting on titles is sheer nonsense and wishful thinking.

    If the expectation in the "TGSAP" era is for just "experts" voting then you may as well start auditing which titles those with a 10,000 or higher credibility rating voted on as I can guarantee that any of them who claims to be an "expert" on all titles they voted on is full of it.

    And now I'll quote Andrew Peter Mee and say "cue the trolls" as I know what's coming next after I hit post.


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  17. RTM's Avatar

    Juan, you asked "Why did Funspot arcade stop letting players record dip switch game settings?"

    I am not their spokesperson but you must realize that ACAM is a fairly large place comprised of 3 entire levels and approx 500 games on the floor of all types (not just arcade titles). They have a primary technician (Randy Lawton) who is "up there" in his years, and a small number of "secondary" technicians, maybe 1-2 who are dedicated and Gary Vincent whose time is split servicing a much larger scope of projects from the owner.

    Quite simply these techs are not there acting for the needs of the arcade submitters. Sure ,they will accommodate when they can as they have in the past, but when their "game card" (i.e. repair checklist) is full, then likely that is their priority at that moment.

    So you have to be reasonable in such expectations. Bear in mind that at a number of other arcades you might not even have the opportunity for such accommodations as the floor staff might not even care about "submitter" requests. I can tell you for a fact that 30-40 years ago if you asked a NYC arcade owner to pull out a title which was tightly wedged in against others smack in the middle of a crowded aisle they would laugh in your face...and that's even assuming they let you set up a video tripod which, odds are, someone would have literally ran off with while you were playing back then, NYC being what it was back in the day.

    So if you have concerns in the present day about what ACAM does/does not do to accommodate submitters it is far better to ask Gary Vincent at ACAM direct rather than speculating in a public post.

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  18. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM




    RTM REPLY - for starters there is nothing in the current TG adjudication "guidelines" (what little guidelines that there are) which precludes non-"experts" from voting. Second, no one is an "expert" on such a vast array of titles that they can gauge settings from sight alone so as to explain how some gamers have credibility ratings in the tens of thousands so you know there are a very good number of non-"experts" voting on titles in the here and now.

    Second, decades back the same held true in the "referee era", and same held true for the PRE-referee era when Walter and his limited crew were accepting scores. The very notion that the "TGSAP" era is comprised solely of "experts" voting on titles is sheer nonsense and wishful thinking.

    If the expectation in the "TGSAP" era is for just "experts" voting then you may as well start auditing which titles those with a 10,000 or higher credibility rating voted on as I can guarantee that any of them who claims to be an "expert" on all titles they voted on is full of it.

    And now I'll quote Andrew Peter Mee and say "cue the trolls" as I know what's coming next after I hit post.



    I think most of what you say is true but you miss the point. Not every contributor has to be an expert. however only experts should be making demands. A non-expert pushing for a reject or an effective policy change when they dont know what they're talking about certainly happens. alot of your explanation that it happens is true, but that doesnt mean it should happen.

    i find it strange you're so opposed to wanting experts to make decisions, wait a minute, no i'm not.

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  19. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake
    i find it strange you're so opposed to wanting experts to make decisions



    RTM REPLY - actually that's not what I said...I'm opposed to the notion that only "experts" should be allowed to adjudicate as well as the expectation that only "experts" have been adjudicating in the TGSAP-era...not with some cred ratings in the tens of thousands.

  20. Pearl2hu's Avatar

    japan plays black dragon on easy anyway so who cares


    also you can tell the difficulty dip by damage, zenny rewards from stages and shop prices.


    learn the games

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