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Joonas
02-26-2019 at 07:25 AM
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About console rules

The rule is that the game should be played on original console system with original game. But if a console has switchless mod done so you can play both NTSC and PAL and change 50/60Hz; could you submit for both categories with the console? And if not, you can atleast submit for the consoles original category?

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  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    You’re really not sypppsed to have any mods unfortunately those lines have been blurred as specific mods have been approved

  2. kernzyp's Avatar

    Yes, but they have been approved by approximately 30% blind voters.
    We need to hear a governed ruling from above.
    It seems the rules have gone out the window, and people are just doing whatever they hell they want, and it gets approved.

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  3. Barthax's Avatar

    Unless the console is known to be region free (PS3, for example), then it should not be done. There have been submissions rejected by the community in such circumstances. There are multiple reasons for it & the reasons may differ from one console to the next. For example, a PAL region NES/SNES consoled runs slower than the NTSC region NES/SNES consoles - ignore the debate about TV types, the CPU really is slower in the PAL region version of the NES & SNES.

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  4. Joonas's Avatar

    I was thinking about buying a Sega Saturn and came across Japanese version of the console that had switchless mod; but I guess I'll have to pass on that.

    Updated 02-26-2019 at 08:42 AM by Joonas
  5. kernzyp's Avatar
  6. Joonas's Avatar

    I took a look.

    TG statement (with all the typos included) right from this website:

    ''Hardware Modification: Console games must be run on offical hardwarw. Offical mods like the PlayStation 2 HDD are allowed, but unoffical mods like the PS2 HD Loader are not. This section does not apply to PC games, as they have no stock hardware.''


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  7. HAN's Avatar

    The only console mods I can see going through without issues are ones that are video related, i.e. an RGB modded N64 or AV modded top loader NES. I used an AV modded top loader NES in a few submissions that were accepted, an original top loader nes doesn't have AV jacks so it would be hard to use on a modern display.

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  8. adeyblue's Avatar

    I love that in kernzy's mind, all sorts of mods, loaders and cracked disks etc are completely fine and allowed for old systems and he has absolutely no problem with it (his mutiple accept votes on everdrive submissions for example), but it gets to the 1994 console generation and above, and then it's an absolutely abhorrent practice that must be struck down and completely disallowed. I'm sure that stance has nothing at all to do with the fact that I legitimately beat him at one of his favourite later-system games and he can't do squat to get them back. Notice he doesn't kick up any fuss on starcrytas's, or anybody else who use later system everdrive type methods, submissions at all, most of which are 'worse' in this regard than mine.

    I'm not even sure that he knows what he's arguing against. All these quotes he tries to dig up about dodgy/modified hardware being disallowed don't apply. FreeMcBoot is just PS2 software, like Microsoft Word is PC software. You put it on your memory card and the built-in PS2 feature of being able to run code from the memory card runs it ,like you can make things run at startup on your PC. All PS2's except the last model can do that, heck Sony themselves relied on it in the earliest models because they didn't have DVD playing hardware. If you take the memory card out, you have a factory condition PS2. There's no extra/different/unnatural/changed hardware involved anywhere. Unlike all these early system type everdrives, which rely on extra hardware that came from who knows where that do god knows what - which he's completely fine with.

    Heck, I even hash the isos and put that in the submissions as well as a link to redump.org where multiple independent people over number of years have dumped the disc and agreed on the hash. That's far more than any everdrive/emulator submitter does, who could be using roms with all sorts of modifications.

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    Updated 02-26-2019 at 11:16 AM by adeyblue
  9. kernzyp's Avatar

    In Kernzy's mind, all he wants is the scoreboard to uphold it's integrity.
    What I'm arguing against is clear.
    The use of a modded PS2. Secondarily, using a third party loader. Two things that cause confusion. Thirdly, you are now submitting direct capture, so we can't even see your console.
    You are the only person I've seen using this method. Why not use an unmodded PS2 and a GT3 disk like the rest of us? What is the advantage of needing to boot your PS2 from a laptop? Why go through all that bother?
    The fact that you beat my scores is irrelevant. I watched your submissions with great interest, and when someone beats my scores, I congratulate them. Gran Turismo's is not my preferred choice. Neither is PS2. I go to that when I have run out of what I deem important. My main interests are elsewhere.
    What we have here, is questionable as to what is being allowed. Nothing more.
    Having a few questionable submissions go through is not proof it is actually acceptable.





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  10. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by adeyblue

    I love that in kernzy's mind, all sorts of mods, loaders and cracked disks etc are completely fine and allowed for old systems and he has absolutely no problem with it (his mutiple accept votes on everdrive submissions for example), but it gets to the 1994 console generation and above, and then it's an absolutely abhorrent practice that must be struck down and completely disallowed. I'm sure that stance has nothing at all to do with the fact that I legitimately beat him at one of his favourite later-system games and he can't do squat to get them back. Notice he doesn't kick up any fuss on starcrytas's, or anybody else who use later system everdrive type methods, submissions at all, most of which are 'worse' in this regard than mine.

    I'm not even sure that he knows what he's arguing against. All these quotes he tries to dig up about dodgy/modified hardware being disallowed don't apply. FreeMcBoot is just PS2 software, like Microsoft Word is PC software. You put it on your memory card and the built-in PS2 feature of being able to run code from the memory card runs it ,like you can make things run at startup on your PC. All PS2's except the last model can do that, heck Sony themselves relied on it in the earliest models because they didn't have DVD playing hardware. If you take the memory card out, you have a factory condition PS2. There's no extra/different/unnatural/changed hardware involved anywhere. Unlike all these early system type everdrives, which rely on extra hardware that came from who knows where that do god knows what - which he's completely fine with.

    There's some background other than personal taste in games which should be taken on board.

    This has cropped up time & again. It will happen time & again when someone uses something that hasn't been seen before in Twin Galaxies submissions.. The number of submissions to the scoreboard simply means no individual will get to everything and those that want to query may not get to query something in a timely fashion (compared to the amount of use).

    So, here's a prediction of what could happen to your submissions: someone finds something about that setup which casts doubt on all submissions which use one or more components that you're using. All your efforts could then be wiped from the scoreboard. It isn't nice & it isn't what we want to happen to anyone - especially not in the volume you're submitting & will bring on more competition (not least 'cause kernzyp & I will respond to your achievements in time - and no doubt you'll respond in turn).

    Quote Originally Posted by adeyblue

    Heck, I even hash the isos and put that in the submissions as well as a link to redump.org where multiple independent people over number of years have dumped the disc and agreed on the hash. That's far more than any everdrive/emulator submitter does, who could be using roms with all sorts of modifications.

    Great idea that has been floated before (to the extend of people suggesting a player has to actively dump a genuine cartridge on camera to prove it's not fake!). Alas, it is ultimately useless - just as it would be useless for anyone using an everdrive to do the same *. A snapshot is easy to generate of a genuine copy and then use something entirely different. [There's also a long conversation that MD5 and SHA1 dumps are easy to pickle - easy to extend the file and pervert the content into appearing to be a different file (granted, exact matching in SHA1 is difficult but not impossible). The conversation ends with MD5 and SHA1 being too weak to be proof on their own and are dubious even when coupled with an exact file size.]

    * It is common place to do so in the Atari 2600 emulator Stella as the rom is confirmed and loaded in one sequence. Here there's at least dual confirmation of hash and size.


    Back to your subs: the games play well, you play well but there's a gap in the evidence about NTSC / PAL. You've suggested in another submission that you have both consoles and use the same setup for both. Where in your video evidence confirms NTSC or PAL?

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