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Joonas
04-04-2019 at 11:12 AM
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Absolute bogus scores!

So, I recently finally found an original Formula 1 (PS1, 1996) game online within my country and I got my hands on it today. I decided to test it out (mostly to see that the disc actually works) and see how much different it's from the Formula 97 I'm currently playing.

Naturally I picked a few tracks and tested how my speed would fare against the TG leaderboards. I'm playing PAL and a guy named John Western has the only lap times on those PAL tracks; his times are totally plausible. BUT when you compare his times to the NTSC times, you will notice that they are consistently 20-30 secs. slower. Could John just be that much slower? The answer is NO! I tested the easiest track on the game, that is mostly just bunch of straights. I could beat John's time by 2 secs., but how on earth the NTSC top time did it by almost 38 seconds is ridiculous!


Fact 1: the NTSC lap times are complete bogus and cannot be attained without some kind of cheats if even then. Also, pretty much all of the NTSC lap times are displayed with one-hundredth of a second precision, when the game measures the lap time with one-thousand of a second precision.

Fact 2: when closer look is taken into the NTSC scoreboards, we notice all the scores are verified by a referee and dated 2004-06-11; that's right, the ''infamous'' date that was used for many scoreboards and many of the scores dated on that day have been disputed. Why were the scores verified on the same date, was it because TG had some Formula 1 tournament that even Europeans traveled to? (No). Was it because a referee decided to review all the Formula 1 scores that had come in, at the same day or week? (Possible, but not likely). Or was it because these scores are taken from gaming magazines and scoring websites and ''affiliated'' to TG? (A very likely option).

Fact 3: the names of submitter's. You can notice that big part of the NTSC scores are submitted by Italians and other Europeans (even one Finn). Now, what are the chances that so many Europeans own a NTSC copy of the game, let alone an actual NTSC version of the Playstation console? I confess that I don't know when the NTSC/PAL split was done at TG database, so maybe the scores were just automatically assumed NTSC when the split happened(?). These names include also ''Grand Master'', pseudonym that I already have mentioned in one of my earlier wall posts. This casts a shadow if any of those names are legit.

Fact 4: equal lap times. One of those NTSC tracks has 2 scores at 2nd place, exactly equal lap times down to one-hundredth of a second. Now what's so odd about this(?), many old racing games have equal scores to that precision. Well, if you have ever played Formula 1 or Formula 1 97, you would know that it is insanely unlikely for two players to hit the exact same time, this is not a ''hit the right pixels'' game, there is way more variants.


Conclusion: these NTSC scores are the same level BS as if someone would claim to have achieved 20 million points at Donkey Kong. Simply an insult to the leaderboards integrity. I appreciate all who took the time to read this whole thing.

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Comments
  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    dont we expect ntsc to be faster? isnt ntsc and pal usually pretty much the same except ntsc runs faster? i'm not familir with the game, i do know though from atari the pitfall, despite saying 20 minutes on screen takes quite a bit longer on pal.

    fyi, not dismissing, i'm very skeptical of the entire ref scoreboard, just trying to make sure i understand each angle so i first want to be sure of any potential problems with comparing pal to ntsc when determinig whats possible

  2. Joonas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    dont we expect ntsc to be faster? isnt ntsc and pal usually pretty much the same except ntsc runs faster? i'm not familir with the game, i do know though from atari the pitfall, despite saying 20 minutes on screen takes quite a bit longer on pal.

    fyi, not dismissing, i'm very skeptical of the entire ref scoreboard, just trying to make sure i understand each angle so i first want to be sure of any potential problems with comparing pal to ntsc when determinig whats possible

    Well, as I mentioned in the post, the first question really is that are those even actually NTSC scores. But yeah it could be argued that NTSC runs faster, but 30 seconds faster on a track that takes less 2 minutes to complete? Just no way.

  3. Marcade's Avatar

    Everything you said here...needs to be in the "dispute track system" to make it official.

    Go for it, and prove your case!

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  4. Joonas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade

    Everything you said here...needs to be in the "dispute track system" to make it official.

    Go for it, and prove your case!

    Marc, I'm still quite new on this site, don't got the cred points yet to do it ;D

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  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    he doesnt have 4000 (or is it 5k, i think its 4k) so for now he needs to convince one of us to open it for him which is why i'm trying to understand better

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  6. Barthax's Avatar

    Fact 2: when closer look is taken into the NTSC scoreboards, we notice all the scores are verified by a referee and dated 2004-06-11; that's right, the ''infamous'' date that was used for many scoreboards and many of the scores dated on that day have been disputed. Why were the scores verified on the same date, was it because TG had some Formula 1 tournament that even Europeans traveled to? (No). Was it because a referee decided to review all the Formula 1 scores that had come in, at the same day or week? (Possible, but not likely). Or was it because these scores are taken from gaming magazines and scoring websites and ''affiliated'' to TG? (A very likely option).

    2004 marks the start of the "new" TG database at the time. Most of the scores were from TG's many splintered previous scoreboards (multiple referees kept their own websites with score elsewhere, for example). The other databases did not necessarily have dates. When the scores were imported to this new central database, he scores were given a date of the import as there was no other data available. There's nothing more to be inferred: the scores were added to the centralised database on that date.

  7. Joonas's Avatar

    Thanks for clearing that up Barthax. My main issue is with the actual lap times, they are simply impossible with default settings.

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  8. RaGe's Avatar

    I actually tossed my F1 game in the garbage a while ago due to those bogus scores. To dispute them, you have to have crystal-clear evidence. I could make a video of me racing...but I don't think that'd be enough. There are twists and turns. How you take a turn may differ from another person. But really, these track times are so far off, a video should be enough, but the only way a person could grasp how "off" these scores are, would be to play it themselves. I don't think Dave will be buying a PS1 and a copy of the game any time soon...lol So yea, game went in the garbage out of disgust :)


    The PS1 game "Porsche Challenge" has the same problem. Though the track times aren't so far off from what's possible, codes were absolutely used (i did extensive playing, with and without the codes). You can't beat any of the times without using a couple of common codes. Since the track times aren't way off, like F1, this game would be even harder to prove without actually playing it. Another one that went in the garbage. Just looking at the disc annoyed me :D

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  9. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Damn dude just mail me any games you feel like throwing in the trash

    LikesRaGe, Snowflake, kernzyp, Fly, Ragequit and 1 others liked this post
  10. Joonas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RaGe

    I actually tossed my F1 game in the garbage a while ago due to those bogus scores. To dispute them, you have to have crystal-clear evidence. I could make a video of me racing...but I don't think that'd be enough. There are twists and turns. How you take a turn may differ from another person. But really, these track times are so far off, a video should be enough, but the only way a person could grasp how "off" these scores are, would be to play it themselves. I don't think Dave will be buying a PS1 and a copy of the game any time soon...lol So yea, game went in the garbage out of disgust :)


    The PS1 game "Porsche Challenge" has the same problem. Though the track times aren't so far off from what's possible, codes were absolutely used (i did extensive playing, with and without the codes). You can't beat any of the times without using a couple of common codes. Since the track times aren't way off, like F1, this game would be even harder to prove without actually playing it. Another one that went in the garbage. Just looking at the disc annoyed me :D

    Your post was exactly how I thought a person playing the NTSC version would feel when looking at that scoreboard. It just leads to giving up on the game.

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  11. RaGe's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    Damn dude just mail me any games you feel like throwing in the trash

    You would be down on the list, as others have said the same thing, too. I think only @Max knows the extent of my game-throwing-out-ness. He seems to be my official "Yea I threw that sh!t in the garbage" guy. I think I'm cured now, though LOL
  12. EVN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RaGe

    Another one that went in the garbage. Just looking at the disc annoyed me :D

    I kind of feel this way about my Mortal Kombat PCB when I see that TriForce score messing up the track.

    LikesJoonas, RaGe, Ragequit liked this post
    Updated 04-04-2019 at 11:08 PM by EVN
  13. Ragequit's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN


    I kind of feel this way about my Mortal Kombat PCB when I see that TriForce score messing up the track.

    Oh god no! Please don't throw away your MK pcb. Preservation comes first lol.
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