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lexmark
11-25-2019 at 12:08 AM
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Score sandbagging, is it really "not in the spirit of competition"

Is anyone here, or know of anyone that is sandbagging a score on ANY platform?

For example, my current zookeeper high scores are crap compared to recorded MAME and Arcade scores that I have but haven't submitted. I'm sandbagging.

Anyone else?

Is it a crime?


john


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Comments
  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    bah, i think sandbagging is one of those hypocritical complaints, hear me out

    if someone already did there best, why would they care if you sandbag? they did their best and then you submit your sandbag performance, and bam its over. dont be a sore loser for losing

    on the other hand, if the issue is they dont know how hard to try and they're not doing their best, and you're sand bagging makes it so they dont know the right among to sandbag, well, kind of a weird complaint....

    now sure for sake of queue adjudication, i think fewer submissions are better, so dont purposely hold back, submit your best right away. after that though, why submit ever new improvement? why not wait until you think you've peaked. i say less submission the better. give adjudicatros time to deal with other people instead of verifying every little improvement you make
    __________________________________________________ ____________________

    all that said your situation is unique as your old score was pre-tgsap without video. i defintiely encourage tgsap submissions

  2. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    bah, i think sandbagging is one of those hypocritical complaints, hear me out

    if someone already did there best, why would they care if you sandbag?

    Well, there was a thread years ago somewhere, not TG or CAGDC or KLOV or Aussie Arcade, I can't remember where. Anyway, the gist was that players that sandbagged sucked big time. I'm wondering if players here think the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake
    all that said your situation is unique as your old score was pre-tgsap without video. i defintiely encourage tgsap submissions

    It might have been "pre-tgsap" but it wasn't "WITHOUT video"

    I might add, thanks for encouraging tgsap submissions, I do too. But I'm not doing it any time soon, because I'm sandbagging. And for good reason!



    john


    .

  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    fine, it was without publicly viewable video. you might want to give you login info to someone trusted then. it would be a shame if you had an unforseen death and never got to upload your fantastic sand bagged video and someone beat it.

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  4. lexmark's Avatar

    Anyway. Never mind what I do, my question to the members was, if they know of any other sandbaggers?

    Anyone?


    john


    .

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    sure, billy mitchel. he put up a great donkey kong score and waited until steve weibe beat him to unleash his year old sandbagged score

  6. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    sure, billy mitchel. he put up a great donkey kong score and waited until steve weibe beat him to unleash his year old sandbagged score

    Thanks, Bill. But I'm not talking about CHEATS.

    I'm talking/asking about honest sandbagging.


    john


    .

  7. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    . you might want to give you login info to someone trusted then. it would be a shame if you had an unforseen death

    There will be nothing unforseen about my death. I'm 55 and i've been an avid drinker and smoker since I was 19.

    Need I say more!


    john


    .

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  8. Barthax's Avatar

    In the old TG there was a case of sandbagging. I wasn't involved but the vague memory I have is: someone submitted a 1st place and then also submitted a better score which was submitted on the proviso that it was only added the scoreboard if their current 1st was surpassed. It came to light & sandbagging was abolished at the referee-known level for TG in that era (pre-2010). It didn't prevent players hoarding footage & performing some sort of sandbagging but if it happened, it wasn't advertised to my knowledge.

    I'm sat on a chunk of footage & know I've submitted a lesser score simply 'cause I can't find my PB. It has happened once (that I can recall) where the submitted score was surpassed and then I found my PB. Accidental sandbagging (it was on one of the TrackMania tracks & the other player's score has or will be removed for YouTube vids).

    I think "frowned upon" is probably the harshest way to put it these days.

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  9. EVN's Avatar

    Sandbagging is the main reason why I think everything pre-TGSAP should be put in a museum.


    Modern high scoring requires you put all your work and strategies on the table for others to use. You can argue that people deserve to keep their strategies but then there are people like TriForce who ruin it by having sandbagged scores obviously done by getting special treatment from a referee. Im sure there are plenty of obviously leeched scores that would never pass TGSAP's global rules, good example being the UN Squadron one I mentioned in the forums.


    Pre-TGSAP and TGSAP are incompatible competitive rule sets and should not be treated equally.

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  10. Barthax's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by EVN

    Sandbagging is the main reason why I think everything pre-TGSAP should be put in a museum.


    Modern high scoring requires you put all your work and strategies on the table for others to use. You can argue that people deserve to keep their strategies but then there are people like TriForce who ruin it by having sandbagged scores obviously done by getting special treatment from a referee. Im sure there are plenty of obviously leeched scores that would never pass TGSAP's global rules, good example being the UN Squadron one I mentioned in the forums.


    Pre-TGSAP and TGSAP are incompatible competitive rule sets and should not be treated equally.

    You're not a politician by any chance are you? Answer a question by grandstanding a completely different answer. :P
  11. EVN's Avatar

    I guess you are right, maybe my examples aren't "Sandbags" by the definition set out here. Just scores with no proof that nobody playing by the current rules can possibly achieve or dispute because no evidence exists to do so.


    So "competitive"...


    My point still stands though. You can't really "sandbag" with TGSAP because anyone with sufficient skill can take your strategies and push your score up. And you can't get leeched scores in past TGSAP global rules anymore unless you play Double Dragon.

  12. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN

    I guess you are right, maybe my examples aren't "Sandbags" by the definition set out here. Just scores with no proof that nobody playing by the current rules can possibly achieve or dispute because no evidence exists to do so.


    So "competitive"...


    My point still stands though. You can't really "sandbag" with TGSAP because anyone with sufficient skill can take your strategies and push your score up. And you can't get leeched scores in past TGSAP global rules anymore unless you play Double Dragon.


    Of course sandbagging is possible in TGSAP! Present one set of skills while knowing a completely different strategy.

  13. EVN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    Of course sandbagging is possible in TGSAP! Present one set of skills while knowing a completely different strategy.


    Yeah that's fine but what happens when someone just copies what you did? You can't sandbag forever, if the game is popular enough people will push it to the limits and the sandbagger can either participate or settle for second place.

  14. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    Of course sandbagging is possible in TGSAP! Present one set of skills while knowing a completely different strategy.


    That's exactly right.


    john


    .

  15. EVN's Avatar

    With TGSAP It'll only work on a game that nobody cares enough about to chase. You can't with a straight face tell me that pre-TGSAP and TGSAP "sandbagging" are an even remotely comparable sport.

  16. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN

    With TGSAP It'll only work on a game that nobody cares enough about to chase. You can't with a straight face tell me that pre-TGSAP and TGSAP "sandbagging" are an even remotely comparable sport.

    I don't remember saying they were. :P Again, you seem to be having a different conversation. ;) Sure you're not a politician?!

  17. EVN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax


    I don't remember saying they were. :P Again, you seem to be having a different conversation. ;) Sure you're not a politician?!


    My comment was more directed at Lexmark. I wouldn't even call suboptimally playing a game nobody is going to chase under TGSAP "sandbagging".


    To be honest, I think you are better off to go shock and awe and get as close to a maxout as you can if the goal is to stifle competition under TGSAP. By sandbagging all you are doing is teaching people how to chase you in increments.

  18. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN



    My comment was more directed at Lexmark. I wouldn't even call suboptimally playing a game nobody is going to chase under TGSAP "sandbagging".

    Cool, my misunderstanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by EVN
    To be honest, I think you are better off to go shock and awe and get as close to a maxout as you can if the goal is to stifle competition under TGSAP. By sandbagging all you are doing is teaching people how to chase you in increments.

    Really depends on the individual. I don't understand what would motivate sandbagging.

    [Edit: thought of one.] Around here, some people pursue ESI. To earn ESI you need to surpass someone else's score. So there's no point posting your best on a blank track as surely no-one will bother. However, if you post something that looks good it might attract competition and then you could sandbag for ESI.


    In terms of your comment on TGSAP vs. pre-TGSAP. I would definitely highlight that some games still allow the player to hide tactics. To games spring to mind (simply 'cause I have/do play them a lot). Hill Climb Racing allows for pedals to be invisible which allows the gamer to hide their specific inputs (it's a game with some incredible subtle inputs in places). Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia will not show the full party skill set and so getting the edge on certain scores will not be obvious from watching another person's play.

    For lots of other games, then pre-TGSAP's option for hiding everything is obviously not comparable.

    Updated 11-25-2019 at 03:02 AM by Barthax
  19. Joonas's Avatar

    Does it count as sandbagging if you do just enough for the first place, but won't bother pushing to see how high of a score you could get?

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  20. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Joonas

    Does it count as sandbagging if you do just enough for the first place, but won't bother pushing to see how high of a score you could get?


    Nah, that's just getting 1st 'cause you can. :D

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