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lexmark
11-25-2019 at 12:08 AM
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Score sandbagging, is it really "not in the spirit of competition"

Is anyone here, or know of anyone that is sandbagging a score on ANY platform?

For example, my current zookeeper high scores are crap compared to recorded MAME and Arcade scores that I have but haven't submitted. I'm sandbagging.

Anyone else?

Is it a crime?


john


.

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Comments
  1. Fly's Avatar

    I never submitted my Track and Field 1 man score of 5.51m. To top it off, I could have gotten much higher but 5.51 was the goal because you know....5.51. The impossible Dragster score.

    Hec

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  2. Snowflake's Avatar

    actually a few interesting points here

    evn makes a point i've often wondered when doing marathons. I dont really wanna marathon any one game twice, so its a psychological question i often ask of what will it take to make sure i dont have to. i mean, with marathons we can always go at least one more second right? so theres absolutley a decision to stop and therefore a question of when that should be. Theres no doubt some scores will encourage competition whereas other scores will discourage it. the interesting question though, is, will a score thats normally high enough to discourage competition, fail to discourage competition if enough incremental sandbag scores were submitted leading up to it? i dont know, but as a marathoner i've often wondered it.

    to jonas, sandbagging really just comes from the metaphor of wearing sandbags while running. i guess a better video game analogy would be playing drunk or tired or otherwise purposely limiting yourself. however, in the context of tg most people use "sand bag" to mean they already have a prepared recording ready to submit the moment someone beats them.

  3. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark

    For example, my current zookeeper high scores are crap compared to recorded MAME and Arcade scores that I have but haven't submitted. I'm sandbagging.


    No vid, no did.

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  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo




    No vid, no did.

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  5. GibGirl's Avatar

    Gonna repeat my usual thought here - if for any reason you think a score isn't good enough to be on the leaderboard, work to get it beaten. :)

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  6. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN



    Pre-TGSAP and TGSAP are incompatible competitive rule sets and should not be treated equally.

    Depends how you look at it. There's two separate skill sets involved. For example, who is the best player, the one that works out all the best strategies or methods himself, or the one that is good at copying other players work, but wouldn't have a hope of working it out for himself?

    There's more to what I just said, but don't have time now to elaborate.


    john


    .

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  7. Jace Hall's Avatar

    I'm just waiting for @lexmark to release his Zookeeper video, so then I can release mine ... :)

    Until then, we both will have to live under "no vid, no did."


    Updated 11-25-2019 at 11:30 AM by Jace Hall
  8. Pearl2hu's Avatar

    the best way to have a healthy community as well as a skilled community for a game is to have public replays, we find this issue a lot in shmups where many replays simply dont exist, or are private. i dont really care about secret replays or scores cause im nowhere near wr level to be able to use these advanced techniques, but just know its kinda silly to hide the actual number you got, because a lot of people are interested in knowing the wr for games, not the actual replay.


    (this comes from someone who doesnt believe no vid no did, because a lot of these no video scores can be figured out. like that un squadron score that uses an infinite leech at the end of the game, oops.)

  9. EVN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl2hu

    (this comes from someone who doesnt believe no vid no did, because a lot of these no video scores can be figured out. like that un squadron score that uses an infinite leech at the end of the game, oops.)

    We're pretty sure it was infinite milked on the end boss but if we dispute it, who is to say we won't be met with "the TriForce defence". "I know a secret about the game that you guys don't, I'll never tell!".


    Updated 11-25-2019 at 12:25 PM by EVN
  10. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    Until then, we both will have to live under "no vid, no did."


    Speak for yourself, Jace. I submitted on DVD, so clearly the no vid no did crowd aren't talking about me. I'm sure we can all at least agree on that:)


    john


    .

  11. EVN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark


    Depends how you look at it. There's two separate skill sets involved. For example, who is the best player, the one that works out all the best strategies or methods himself, or the one that is good at copying other players work, but wouldn't have a hope of working it out for himself?

    There's more to what I just said, but don't have time now to elaborate.


    john


    .


    Yep, pre-TGSAP you get to own your strategies. TGSAP you don't.

  12. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN



    Yep, pre-TGSAP you get to own your strategies.

    That's not close to true in my case. I've documented EVERYTHING for EVERYONE to see in explicit detail. See here.....

    http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,846.0.html



    john


    .

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  13. Jace Hall's Avatar



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  14. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark


    Speak for yourself, Jace. I submitted on DVD, so clearly the no vid no did crowd aren't talking about me. I'm sure we can all at least agree on that:)


    john


    .

    Again, no vid no did. With all the stuff coming up about the past and how things are handled how can I take anyone's word? For all I know a ref could of done you a favor (something we have seen in the past) and just listed it as a DVD submission.
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  15. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Also, lets say the DVD is real. How would I know if the contents on it are legit? How do I know there isn't any cheating going on?


    glen

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  16. Snowflake's Avatar

    well at least lexmark being the one hit wonder he is, doesnt actually have other video that implies he cant do it. you know, like certain people who do submit in the video age, and their video demonstrates a real lack of skill on other titles making me stronlgy suspcious of their scores without video

  17. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    well at least lexmark being the one hit wonder he is, doesnt actually have other video that implies he cant do it. you know, like certain people who do submit in the video age, and their video demonstrates a real lack of skill on other titles making me stronlgy suspcious of their scores without video

    He also doesn't have any video uploaded that implies that he CAN do it.
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  18. redelf's Avatar

    I think that showing your video would be better for you. I't would show off the talent and skills that you have figured out. It would bring more competition and community involvement into the game you love and enjoy. You will never know if you are the best until you show your video and the community tries to beat your score with your strats. I enjoy putting out new stats and working with the community to make better strats. Look at how much fun and involvement in the community I have with the pole position discussion http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=2259.0 It's not quite the same as I'm not actually playing as much as I am actively analyzing and helping others get better.

    What I'm saying is put out your video and let the community participate in your journey, going about a journey all by yourself isn't as much fun as sharing it with others, who knows you might even earn some respect for doing it. I would have loved to discuss ideas and strats with you, but with no video or idea what you were talking about I had no interest and actually made me not want to have anything to do with you are the game. Who want's to be the best at something and not let the world know.

    I have more respect for the guy that shows the world how good he is and what he's figured out than the guy who won't show. My biggest problem with you is how you went about the whole thing with how good you are at ZK. If you would have just showed everyone and started your conversation on the thread of ZK I believe you would have had more respect and a lot more fun and made some friends.



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  19. Snowflake's Avatar

    there is a difference between good player and good innovator. its only old tg people that seem to think innovating secret tactics (especially when we're not even sure they innovated versus cheated) makes them great. i would be in favor of wiki to list innovators.

    heres the other thing. you know who gets credit for innovating? not the first person who did it, the first person who shared it

    someday you're score will be beaten, but if you're the first to teach the world something then you're forever remembered as the contributor

  20. GibGirl's Avatar

    One of the things I've really liked about speedrunning is the way each game's community works together to identify bugs to exploit, strategies to use, routes to take, and so on. Each person gets recognized in their own way. It's usually known that the runner who can perform the best is often not the person who figured out WHAT to do.


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