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Lonnie
03-25-2019 at 03:47 PM
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Marathon Criteria

Marathon Criteria


Having played and watched many marathons - read the rules etc -


With streaming , people attending , watching in person -


Is running the score and the extra men on the stream in the frame / footer etc helping keep track of things considered allowable now?


This seems to be common practice.


The only data on this is RTMs and I can't find anything more current - well at least via the phone app.
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  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    i think thats been allowable for a long time. i'm just going by what i heard, but didnt george's q*bert run have people keep track of lives for his nap? didnt missile command have some device keep track?

    i've kept track of my own men with dice, and the onscreen rollovers others have updated the stream for me, not that that would be hard form e to keep track of as well

    its not explictly allowed or outlawed, but there are enough cases of such scores being approved that i would say yes, it is allowed.

  2. Lonnie's Avatar
    Okay- where is this at in current TG rules?
    If it was changed we should see a record of that right?



    The old ones didn't allow it.
  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    Is there a record of the old rules not allowing it? They used to allow photograph of rollovers for marathons even so I don’t know how they’d check fir help remembering but like I already said I don’t believe explicitly allowed or outlawed anywhere. There’s no need to officially repeal a rule when it’s only rumored to have existed

  4. RTM's Avatar

    I should add, Lon, that the original marathon rules were approved by both the then-TG Board of Referees AND were subsequently ratified by then-TG chief scorekeeper, Walter Day.

    Subsequent "administrations" made no effort to further modernize or streamline those rules therefore they remain in place.

    Modern criticism of those rules coming from some is more akin to backseat driving than anything else...such as disagreement on the very definition of what constitutes a marathon.

    The original definition was 24 hours for a marathon and 48 hours for an ultra marathon. We never bothered with further quantification as performances of 72 hours and beyond were likely to be so infrequent that they could probably be counted on one hand for decades to come...and sure enough that assessment does seem to hold water even now.

    However, there are those who wish to dilute the achievements of yesteryear by engaging in revisionism and re-defining a marathon in terms of lesser duration. Some has stated that it should be as little as 12 hours, and some for even half of that. That would be like Major League Baseball mandating that all ball parks shorten the outfield by a full 50 feet and still counting any balls hit over the shorter walls as "home runs"...and should any player hit 80, 90 or even 100 such "home runs" lumping them together with the achievements of Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth.

    As for individual nuances within a marathon, all of which were made publicly available for comment from the gaming community more than 15 years ago, they were also pretty exact in terms of what is and is not allowed. And again, barring TG from formally disavowing these rules still-in-place all these years later, they are just that...still in place.

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    this is the best i can give you

    heres the 1983 rules

    http://www.videoparadise-sanjose.com/tg-rules.htm

    heres the 2003 rules

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/109910-Official-TG-Policy-Marathoning-v1-0

    here the current rules

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/help



    now remember, often times people wrongly assume rules exist that dont and spread. For example both Georgeon Q*Bert and John Salter on armor attack believed the false rumor at the time there was a time limit on breaks for there games. he time limit rule even then only applied to safe spots, since though they had lives consntalyt dying they were free to break as long as they wanted, however, since they trusted rumor over officila documentation, they short changed themselves and played by artifical limits. This is fine of course, they were free to limit themselves beyond what the rules demanded, but their self imposed based on incorrect information hardly created a precedent others needed to follow. And their following of rules that didnt exist, doesnt require an official response to repeal their incorrect bleiefs.

    without any documentation referncing the rules you mention, my default assumption is that the rules you believe existed may have been no more than rumor. granted, i am assuming, but without documentation i cant see any reason to demand documentation for a reapl

    anywy, the above links is all i know. feel free to have someone keep track of your lives, i cant imagine anyone here trying to DQ your score over it

  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM

    .... Some has stated that it should be as little as 12 hours, and some for even half of that. That would be like Major League Baseball mandating that all ball parks shorten the outfield by a full 50 feet and still counting any balls hit over the shorter walls as "home runs"...and should any player hit 80, 90 or even 100 such "home runs" lumping them together with the achievements of Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth...

    you've made a few comments very shortly after some 12 hour marathons of mine, leaving my name out, but clearly mocking me for calling 12 hours a marathon. you're free to change your opinion of course, but mocking people for adhering to YOUR rules is a litte contradictory.

    You say "some has stated that it should be as little as 12 hours" -- you leave out YOU are the "some" that made that rule. again, you're free to change your mind, but its pretty disingenous to mock people for adhering to that rule, act as if some random people came up with it, when in reality is is your rule and we are simply following it.

    If you want to claim your rule was in error, fine, we all make mistakes. thats cool.but stop rewriting history and pretending it was someone else who made the 12 hour rule when that comes from you.
    ThanksBlackflag82 thanked this post
  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    "Ron and I believe that 12 hours or more on a single game credit is considered a "marathon". " -- so if you have an issue with my 12 hour marathons take it up with yourself and ron.

  8. Lonnie's Avatar
    Thank you for thinks hyperlinks.


    I don't see a definitive answer in the new rules regarding people help keeping track of extra men and counter rollovers or broadcasting them?
  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie
    Thank you for thinks hyperlinks. I don't see a definitive answer in the new rules regarding people help keeping track of extra men and counter rollovers or broadcasting them?

    correct. But lonnie, i feel like you may not be reading my responses as i've already explicitly told you twice now that its not explicitly outlawed or approved, only to be asked again. Is there something else you're trying to ask? I tend to reply to exactly whats asked. if you're question has some implicatoin i'm missing, just outright ask it and i'll do my best to answer

  10. Lonnie's Avatar
    Of course it has meaning - I'm gearing up for a 50 plus hour marathon.
    I'd like to see an official TG position on the subject. As TG new rules don't address the questions does not mean there isn't an official position.
  11. Snowflake's Avatar

    In that case only @Dave Hawksett can help you. I can tell you my vote would be unaffected by such things and I can tell you Lauren’s tapper score, clearly the voters on her score don’t mind either. There have been zero complaints and lots of approvals but if you need explicit permission only Dave can help

  12. Lonnie's Avatar
    Explicit permission ? - no


    I want to know TGs official position.
  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    well lonnie, i gave you links to their official rules. you asked for something not stated in the rules. Theres no "official position" on whether you can wear a blue shirt while playing games either, generally speaking, they're not gonna have an official position on every little thing you can think of. If its not outlawed, its ok. Granted "spirit of the game" allows some things which arent outlawed to be rejected on a case by case basis by adjudicators.

    So the official position is, those rules i linked you to are the official rules, but adjudicators, as with anything, are allowed to reject things not covered by the rules if its deemed to go "against spirit of play". I suppose, in theory, a group of adjudicators could decide that gives unfair advantage, reject your score, and you'd have no recourse since the "spirit of the game" rule could cover them and it wouldnt be deemed an abuse of power. yes, they could do that, the official position would allow that. I can tell you though based on my experience and familiarity with the community, that no, the voters here would not do that.

    if this about your jrok score being rejected for not showing settings, you broke no rule their. the "official position" allowed what you did, but thers also a rule saying to vote what you believe. as that evidence was insufficient for most adjudicators, it was rejected on those concerns.

    I'm letting you know the scenario here is different. evidence, whats convincing, by its nature is a pretty big grey area and will change with technology. "proving" things, and ruling out fakes is a cat and mouse game. that doesnt apply here. now you're asking about acceptable aids.

    i'm trying to help you out here man, if this is about you wanting to submit a joust marathon with someone else keeping track of your lives, you will be fine. really. its cool.

  14. Lonnie's Avatar
    I'm unaware any record has been denied


    “ if this about your jrok score being rejected for not showing settings, you broke no rule their. the "official position" allowed what you did, but thers also a rule saying to vote what you believe. as that evidence was insufficient for most adjudicators, it was rejected on those concerns.”
  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    ok, its possible my memory is off. you only have one rejected score and not for why i remember

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/150853-JROK-Joust-Tery-Hunting!-(Leechfest)-136-000-Lonnie-McDonald


    i thought (apparently wrongly) you had a problem with non-expert adjudicators since a score was rejected for not showing setting when gameplay would've shown it. the archives prove me wrong. thats fine, i can admit error.

    all the more reason for you to have nothing to worry about. really, submit it, i'm not gonna say the score will go through without seeing the video because i dont know if there be another issue, but i can say there is just no way it would be rejected due to someone keeping track of lives. I would be shocked if even just one person said something remotely negative about it, theres certainly though zero chance of enough people taking issue with it to get it rejected

    really, you'll be fine. Its still possible @Dave Hawksett might give you an official answer you like, but dont just wait on that and let that interfere with your plans. go for it

  16. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    "Ron and I believe that 12 hours or more on a single game credit is considered a "marathon". " -- so if you have an issue with my 12 hour marathons take it up with yourself and ron.




    RTM REPLY - it would be nice if you had dates associated with these quotes from 15-16 years ago and more. The final version of the marathon rules was the "Bible" so to speak for a great many years. The current TG policy is clearly a derivative of those.

    There might have indeed been statements made at some point that said a marathon was 12, but if they were made pre-2003 rules (4/22/03) then the rules overrode those statements. That's not revisionism, that's a fact.

    Ron was ousted from TG in early Feb/04 so I am assuming wherever you found this quote it had to have been issued prior to that.

    The April 2003 rules, along with the related leeching rules, "85% rule" and more, were part of an effort to formalize a lot of what had previously been word-of-mouth for many years or a combination of that plus a skeleton of rules from years prior. While some of the original pre-2001 rules had governed TG from 1981-1987 and subsequently by default 1996-2000, several were incomplete and antiquated and some (the "85% rule" in particular) was completely thrown out as it was unworkable and easy to manipulate to a player's submission advantage.

    Just curious how that exact quote was found...I typed in the lead several words via Google search and nothing came up. I'm sure it was said but I'd like to know the date.

    If you are going to base your entire argument on one (1) single quote issued supporting 12 hours (please provide the link so we can see the date), as opposed to the many quotes made over the past 15+ years supporting a 24 hour marathon, that's called cherry-picking to support your argument. Overwhelmingly the statements had been made in favour of a 24-hour marathon definition. Additional research and would confirm as much.

  17. Blackflag82's Avatar

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/109910-Official-TG-Policy-Marathoning-v1-0

    It seems the above quote is from the 4/22/03 date you reference. So it seems 12 hours has been the rule you agreed to and implemented since 2003...or is there something I'm missing?

  18. Snowflake's Avatar

    Rtm my god you’re a lazy illiterate argumentative liar who doesn’t even check what he’s cool arguing with. You said it would be nice if I included dates and I did. You talk about the official rules date and that’s what I reference. Yes you are a revisionist who regularly contradicts even yourself on the past based on your agenda at the time. You never had a problem with YOUR 12 hour rule until I started doing 12 hour marathons. Most corrupt ref I’ve seen

  19. Snowflake's Avatar

    Hey I know, maybe you just “rounded” 12 hrs to 24. That’s another scam of yours right? Rounding away your lies?

  20. Snowflake's Avatar

    lonnie as you can see RTM and I have a thing. for a while i was doing a 12 hour marathon every month. i've now brought it to once every 2 months. well, remmber how chief corruption got banned from TG cause he was so bitter against roy he tried to destroy the guiness contract over that grudge and walter saw what a threat he posed? well his revenge is in full bloom again, except this time its against me.

    so when he saw me doing 12 hour marathons, his roy's rage kicked in and he started bashing 12 hour marathons strictly out of his hate for me even if that meant contradicting himself. He even recently praised child molestor ron as being better than us because of how we were voting -- come to find out, he completely lied and both he and ron even voted the same way as us. he just made up the past (revisionist) to try to reject an asteroids score and his lie included having the nerve to tell us ron was better than us. i could go on and on. he's claimed credit for creating a donkey kong track he never made and argued adamantly not just that he created it, but what his intention was at the time. The dude will do anything for his agenda. its a pitty too cause he was there, he has a wealth of knowledge, sadly he contradicts the facts and himself. all over his grudges. he doesnt realize that his grudges leading to more corruption only results in more people taking issue with his him. he makes things worse.

    dont worry, this isnt the old scoreboard he mruczeked up. despite his agenda against me hes been caught in his recent lies and hasnt been able to maninpulate like he once was. again, you're score will be fine. submit away. The reign of mruczek madness is finally over.

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