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Pixe Sukola
07-05-2020 at 03:11 PM
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Rodrigo Lopes, One of the Greatest.

Most of us here know Rodrigo and are aware of his story. To those who don't know him here is a very short recount.

He is a player from Brazil who joined Twin Galaxies 20 years ago, he had recently reached #1 place in the ESI leaderboard and he was also #1 in the number of World Records leaderboard. He had hundreds of scores approved in the referee era and thousands approved by the community in the TGSAP era.

A dispute was raised in one of his Zelda scores from the referee era from 15 years ago, because it was suspected of cheating. There was never an official veredict on wether he cheated or not, but based on the examples provided by experts, most people, including myself, would believe that he did cheat.

So that happened, a young human made a big mistake and cheated, should he be punished? Yes absolutely, he did something he definitely shouldn't have done.

How hard? By completely eliminating him along with the thousands of scores that the community reviewed and were never even suspected and never allowing him to return? Seems too hard to me. He wasn't just some idiot stealing footage from youtube and submitting it under his name just to get on a Walter Day's card like that guy from Israel that was banned two weeks after he joined. Rodrigo was the most dedicated player on this site and now he and all of his acomplhisments have been completely erased from the site because of one mistake.

It really bothered me to see him banned and all of his scores dissapear, like Roger said it was the first time my WR count went up but I didn't feel good about it. Every time I would get overall 1st place on a game I would think "I just hope Rodrigo doesn't pick this game up" because I knew he would quickly beat me. And even his inaugural scores were hard to beat, he would try hard even if there was no score to beat.

In my opinion, in trying to punish one person, this situationt went too far and ended up punishing the whole community and the site itself, hundreds of hours put by the community to review thousands of scores should count for something. There has to be a path for redemption for a player like Rodrigo and I think the removal of 20 years of records is more than enough punishment for one, if not the greatest player to have ever been a member on this site.

Rodrigo should be allowed to come back with a new slate and be allowed to submit again but only new scores, meaning, he can't just resubmit the same videos he has for new records, he would have to prove every time that he is getting them live. Or at least his TGSAP scores should be reinstated because they were approved by the community.

Thanks for reading this.

Comments
  1. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    Must be some "cool" phrase going around?? How the hell am I being anti-social? This comment doesn't even make sense. Billy Mitchell of all people would know why one would never admit they cheated on a score was the point of that comment...because he got caught, won't admit it, sticking to his guns, calling us names, etc.


    "Thanks for being anti-social" is a catch phrase from the short lived television series "Antisocial" which aired in 2005. Sort of an inside joke. Blackmail Betty says it to people that are being rude or disruptive.

    Inserting Billy Mitchell into the conversation like you did was rather immature. It is close to saying "Oh yeah? YOU ARE!!!" right before sticking your tongue out.


  2. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious

    He was shady until the end. That's why I don't want him back. We are supposed grow and learn from our past and our mistakes. He didn't.

    Absolutely. He was given his chance. He could have made a plea deal. He was told the consequences of not owning up. It was HIS choice to cheat, HIS decision to lie about it.

    There is no going back. The guillotine of justice has spoken. There is no sewing that head back on.

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  3. Ninglendo's Avatar

    If I recall I put my entire TG account on the line to back the proof. If he would of proven himself it would of been myself and others that got the ban. Instead he taunted us by his remarks and at the end his video showing he had the tapes and the ability to re-record the footage and still chose to show us the footage we already reviewed. If he would of handled it like he was actually sorry about doing it then he would of admitted his wrongdoing and I'm willing to guess the punishment would of been lighter. Instead he handled it the worst way possible a guilty person would handle it. Even if he admitted to it now the damage has already been done. He had MONTHS to rethink his decision and in the end decided to handle it poorly. I've said this multiple times before... once TGSAP became a thing he magically stopped competing at a high level and decided to submit to basically mobile games. Funny how all these older era gamers stopped submitting when public video evidence was required.

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  4. Marcade's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    If I recall I put my entire TG account on the line to back the proof. If he would of proven himself it would of been myself and others that got the ban. Instead he taunted us by his remarks and at the end his video showing he had the tapes and the ability to re-record the footage and still chose to show us the footage we already reviewed. If he would of handled it like he was actually sorry about doing it then he would of admitted his wrongdoing and I'm willing to guess the punishment would of been lighter. Instead he handled it the worst way possible a guilty person would handle it. Even if he admitted to it now the damage has already been done. He had MONTHS to rethink his decision and in the end decided to handle it poorly. I've said this multiple times before... once TGSAP became a thing he magically stopped competing at a high level and decided to submit to basically mobile games. Funny how all these older era gamers stopped submitting when public video evidence was required.

    Now available in OH, CANADA

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    glen does make a good point. i guess i have to say i'd be ok with todd, billy, and other pre tg banning be allowed to resubimt. but rodrigo chose to make it a gamble, he cant welch on that bet. others gambled their account and won, you cannot undo a bet just cause you lost

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  6. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod



    "Thanks for being anti-social" is a catch phrase from the short lived television series "Antisocial" which aired in 2005. Sort of an inside joke. Blackmail Betty says it to people that are being rude or disruptive.

    Inserting Billy Mitchell into the conversation like you did was rather immature. It is close to saying "Oh yeah? YOU ARE!!!" right before sticking your tongue out.


    You completely took what I said the opposite direction. The comparisons of Rodrigo and Billy are incredibly similar, not sure how mature/immature is even being brought up in this conversation? If you asked Billy why someone would not admit to cheating and then asked Rodrigo the same question, I'd put money on it they both say "I didn't cheat" no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary....and they both did answer that way. I'm not sure how I was being rude or disruptive let alone how you came to the conclusion of me being immature about it. I have no clue as to how your last sentence makes sense to what I said either. Just have to leave whatever this is at that I guess.

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  7. Pearl2hu's Avatar

    if you cheat you get banned


    simple as that i dont get the reason of confusion

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  8. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    You completely took what I said the opposite direction. The comparisons of Rodrigo and Billy are incredibly similar, not sure how mature/immature is even being brought up in this conversation? If you asked Billy why someone would not admit to cheating and then asked Rodrigo the same question, I'd put money on it they both say "I didn't cheat" no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary....and they both did answer that way. I'm not sure how I was being rude or disruptive let alone how you came to the conclusion of me being immature about it. I have no clue as to how your last sentence makes sense to what I said either. Just have to leave whatever this is at that I guess.


    My apologies good sir. The confusion is likely as a result of my being incredibly intoxicated at the moment. Just another Irish Sunday.

    Happy Independence! Kick those damn brits in the ass again for me.

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  9. Ninglendo's Avatar

    When we are talking about "one of the greatest" are we talking about his questionable pre-TGSAP past or his love for spamming mobile game submissions?

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  10. Madsandy's Avatar

    He should not be allowed to come back. He knew exactly what was at stake when he A. Allegedly cheated and B. Defended his alleged cheating. Allowing him or anyone else the ability to come back and submit clean scores, even with a clean slate, would still undermine the credibility of TG. In the end, if they dont like it, they could always create their own score hosting site that does allow cheaters a 2nd chance.

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  11. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    When we are talking about "one of the greatest" are we talking about his questionable pre-TGSAP past or his love for spamming mobile game submissions?

    Well, he was #1 in the ESI leaderboard, that proves he was one of the greatest here. Even if we take out all of the pre-TGSAP scores, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten the 1st place with TGSAP ones.

    I don't see anything wrong with mobile games or spamming scores, in fact, I believe score spammers are the ones that help TG the most, by making the leaderboards grow. And as a gamer that competed against Rodrigo, I can tell you his scores were not easy to beat.

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  12. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola


    Well, he was #1 in the ESI leaderboard, that proves he was one of the greatest here. Even if we take out all of the pre-TGSAP scores, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten the 1st place with TGSAP ones.

    I don't see anything wrong with mobile games or spamming scores, in fact, I believe score spammers are the ones that help TG the most, by making the leaderboards grow. And as a gamer that competed against Rodrigo, I can tell you his scores were not easy to beat.


    Yes, we should not forget Rodrigo created what seemed like 1000's of tracks. Angry Birds, Hyrule Warriors for Wii U and 3DS, and Theatrhythm Final Fantasy just to name a few, Plus, he submitted to almost every single one, which got me interested in competition.

    Rodrigo was no push over. Some of those Angry Birds and MAME scores were tough to beat.


    As for his ban, it was justified.

    He made a wall post where he called me and the others raising disputes against him "haters" and called me crazy.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/entry.php/7142-Letter-for-Matthew-Felix

    He refused to show his Zelda NES speedrun which had signs of splicing, noted by enemy spawns.

    Remember, he was caught on Zelda NES. If he was clean there, he had to explain how he was way ahead of competition on Four Swords Adventures. Likely would have been caught cheating there.

    He was supposed to be this highly skilled speedrunner, having records on almost every Zelda game, Alex Kidd, Super Mario World, you know, some of the most notable records in speedrunning. Yet there was little to no proof.

    If he was so legit, and wanted to prove haters wrong, why not show the runs? Why keep outdated runs hidden? If they were legit, he should have showed them, and gained the fame that comes with being good at speedrunning.


    If we let him back, other gaming communities will laugh at us for letting a cheater back in.

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  13. Barthax's Avatar

    I really don't know anything about Zelda but is this the one that was done on Super Gameboy & shouldn't have been accepted in the first place due to Super Gameboy speed difference? [Edit: nope, NES... @starcrytas' post above mine confirms. ]

    The official line (for those that don't want to go digging) is that TG didn't label Rodrigo a cheater. They found his behaviour in a dispute case unbecoming of a former referee.

    The actual evidence against Rodrigo was akin to that of Triforce's dispute on some other game I have no knowledge... Zero evidence from the achiever, proven possible by the community, heavy doubt about the actual circumstances. Triforce's score remains.

    Here's the image problem I have with this dispute: TGSAP is touted as the best method of ensuring good evidence and yet they throw out the scores from the scoreboard yet retain the evidence attached to every scoreboard. Either the scores are proven under TGSAP and elligible for dispute or they're not. As TG has not labelled Rodrigo a cheat, I question if TG has faith in TGSAP - it can't stand by scores approved by its TGSAP so that reflects against TGSAP.

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    Updated 07-06-2020 at 01:31 AM by Barthax
  14. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    once TGSAP became a thing he magically stopped competing at a high level and decided to submit to basically mobile games. Funny how all these older era gamers stopped submitting when public video evidence was required.


    Short-sighted: while the overwhelming majority with mobile games he still submitted to older stuff.

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  15. nads's Avatar

    It really was a Sad day and a Great Loss to TG when Rodrigo left, to me he will always be a Legendary gamer especially in the 2600 Leader boards.

    He isnt a cheater nor was labelled one by TG, so in that respect I would love to see him comeback here one day.

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  16. Fly's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by nads

    It really was a Sad day and a Great Loss to TG when Rodrigo left,


    Not sad for me.

    Fly

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    Updated 07-06-2020 at 04:21 AM by Fly
  17. Tompa's Avatar

    Rodrigo also claimed that if he was banned, he would upload the videos afterwards. I still check his Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/user/Silliconian/videos) every now and then with a small small ounce of hope that I'll see a Zelda run in its entirety there. While he did upload a video after his ban, it was not what I hoped.

    I'll say the same thing I've said about Michael "TSA" Damiani: Cheated or not, I would still love to see the runs and I would have a lot more respect for Rodrigo - right now it's down to 0 - if he did in fact release his runs, just for general historic curiousity. What kind of strategies did he actually know about back then? What was his route like? How was the gameplay? As none of this was ever shared to others running the game, like TSA, it would be interesting to see. And even if his runs could never be seen, it still made TSA try harder to improve his time; despite it also being cheated, and eventually started the Zelda speedrunning scene in general.

    But as it stands: Rodrigo simply refused to give himself any kind of honor in the matter. He chose to be the disliked/hated person he claims that everyone thinks he is. That was his decision, not ours.

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  18. kernzyp's Avatar

    Aah, it's a toughie.
    He was always extremely scrutinising even when I was making pure entries. He seemed extremely fair, to me. He denied some of my fair entries because he was doubtful, so he was trying hard. What for, now, I have to think?
    I don't know what to make of this.
    He seemed cool as hell until he was banned while I was away. I never knew... I was surprised.

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  19. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl2hu

    if you cheat you get banned


    simple as that i dont get the reason of confusion

    I'm not confused, he has been banned and I agree with that.

    My point is that the TGSAP scores didn't have to be removed. You either believe in the TGSAP system or you don't (I'm not talking about you personally, I'm talking about Jace). If you believe in the TGSAP system then Rodrigo's scores should remain and the pre-TGSAP ones removed. If you don't believe in the TGSAP then removing all scores is fine, but I doubt that is Jace's position.

    Of course I would like to see Rodrigo back, but if he doesn't come back I'd still think that his ban was fair. But not the removal of his TGSAP scores.

    Remove all the player's acomplishments so far and let him keep competing or remove the player but keep the scores we know are legit, doing both is excesive and unfair to the TGSAP system and the community is essentially what I'm saying. I should have expressed that better from the beggining, sorry.

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    Updated 07-06-2020 at 06:14 PM by Pixe Sukola
  20. kernzyp's Avatar

    It's still tough!
    If only ONE one his scores is faulty...?
    I don't know what to think. I've had a score or two negatively voted upon.
    I'm outta the loop...

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