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Pixe Sukola
02-16-2021 at 12:36 PM
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Asking for privileges to edit game and track's names.

Hello, one year ago I was granted privileges to edit the art box images for videogames and I have updated hundreds of them for a lot of different platforms since then. Now I would like to ask for privileges to edit the names of the tracks since there is a lot of them that need better wording or just straight up corrections.

I would be willing to create a list of all tracks I edit so that admin staff, Franny, Jace and the community can verify that I'm doing a good job. I'm not asking for privileges to edit rules, but only the names of the games and tracks.

I have been a member for almost 4 years, I have submitted more than 1500 scores and have created hundreds of new tracks and I want nothing but the best for this site. I would gladly dedicate a lot of my free time to fix these errors and make Twin Galaxies look better and grow. I think I have proven myself to be a valuable member of this community and I would lilke to hear @Jace Hall 's opinion on this request and the community as well on wether or not I should be granted this privilege.

Here's just one example amongst many, of tracks I would like to correct.

Game: Luxor: Pharaoh's Challenge

https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/luxor-pharoahs-challenge/nintendo-wii

The name of the game is spelled incorrectly, it should be Pharaoh's instead of Pharoah's, and the names of the tracks are not the best either. This is the current name of one of the tracks.

NTSC - 1 player - points - [Endless mode - A game of Senet]

There is no multiplayer mode for this game so specifying "1 player" is irrelevant. In my opinion it should look like this

NTSC - Endless Mode - A Game of Senet [Points]

this would make the track's name clearer and more accurate.

Like I said, I could create a log of all the edited track names so that the community and admin staff can review them. Thanks.


Comments
  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    although i trust you, and i suspect admin will grant your request, id like to suggest either they limit you, or you limit yourself to only tg founded tracks. People who pay submissioins points to create their own stuff shouldnt be interfered except for in the most extreme cases

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  2. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    although i trust you, and i suspect admin will grant your request, id like to suggest either they limit you, or you limit yourself to only tg founded tracks. People who pay submissioins points to create their own stuff shouldnt be interfered except for in the most extreme cases

    I absolutely agree, editing of user created tracks would be only upon request from the creator.

    Thanks for your comment.

  3. sdwyer138's Avatar

    I would certainly support you taking this on. I would disagree with Snowbill though. User founded tracks lose all formatting when they go live and need to be fixed.

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  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    i cant argue the formatting. thats a yuge problem. I would think a programatic solution has to exist though before having a user manually go through it all

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  5. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    I would certainly support you taking this on. I would disagree with Snowbill though. User founded tracks lose all formatting when they go live and need to be fixed.

    Thanks a lot Sean, but the format that gets all messed up after the track is founded is the rules section and I'm not asking for privileges to edit rules. That to me would be a little controversial and a huge responsibility that altho' I would be willing to accept, I think it is too much to ask.

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    Updated 02-16-2021 at 01:18 PM by Pixe Sukola
  6. sdwyer138's Avatar

    First order of business needs to be removing "NTSC/PAL" from all the PSP track titles.

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  7. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    First order of business needs to be removing "NTSC/PAL" from all the PSP track titles.

    Yes, that's another thing I have on my list. There is no difference between the two regions so having "NTSC/PAL" in the tittle of the tracks only clutters the names.

  8. TWIN GALAXIES's Avatar

    We will look into this and see if such isolated privileges could be made possible.

    The gesture of volunteering to do this is of course greatly appreciated, as is all of your previous contributions.


    @admin staff

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  9. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    If this involves tidying up game names and track descriptions I'm all about it. I'm Bout it Bout it.

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  10. Barthax's Avatar

    I believe, especially based on the example given, that Daniel has shown bias to remove the subtlety & potentially cause damage. This example is incredibly minor but proves the bias. Regardless of whether a game indicates "1 player" in a game with no multi-player. Losing the "1 player" in that example permits the idea that two different players can use the one controller. Yes, yes, this is incredibly petty & masses of other tracks hold the idea well but here he's citing a subtle removal of a rule in place of an existing track because track titles are rules. Untold damage has been achieved in the past by a great many people wishes to "tidy" things - not least the people in charge of the job. Every single generation of individuals with edit rights have done damage (including Jace/Franny) due to lack of foresight (yes, including me when I was a ref).

    Proviso: until TG can enact a true history of the different versions of the text, we cannot be certain of the prior versions and the in-keeping of the originality of the rules/title. The current "history" is just some comment of the edit being made and does not preserve the original rules (I know this isn't what is being asked) and does not preserve the original track title at all (which is being asked).

  11. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    I believe, especially based on the example given, that Daniel has shown bias to remove the subtlety & potentially cause damage. This example is incredibly minor but proves the bias. Regardless of whether a game indicates "1 player" in a game with no multi-player. Losing the "1 player" in that example permits the idea that two different players can use the one controller.

    You are one of the main advocates to accept direct capture, if you think that removing the "1 player" from the tittle track on a game with no multiplayer mode ins't right and shows my bias, are you saying direct capture shouldn't be accepted for these tracks and only video from a handheld camera showng only one person playing should be required?

    And so in every track where tittle that doesn't specify "1 player", more people are allowed to play the game when achieving a score?

    Updated 02-16-2021 at 11:23 PM by Pixe Sukola
  12. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola


    You are one of the main advocates to accept direct capture, if you think that removing the "1 player" from the tittle track on a game with no multiplayer mode, are you saying direct capture shouldn't be accepted for these tracks and only video from a handheld camera showng only one person playing should be required?

    And so in every track where tittle that doesn't specify "1 player", more people are allowed to play the game when achieving a score?


    Another example of not understanding, in my opinion.

    1 player is in the global rules but even with camera "1 player" is usually not confirming - most players aren't on camera. However, if someone chose to explicitly put that rule in the title it is usually for an good reason. For example, I have explicitly used "no pausing" for some titles even though there's already the global rule for "no pausing" because certain games have grown (external) communities where pausing is considered normal.

  13. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax



    Another example of not understanding, in my opinion.

    1 player is in the global rules but even with camera "1 player" is usually not confirming - most players aren't on camera. However, if someone chose to explicitly put that rule in the title it is usually for an good reason. For example, I have explicitly used "no pausing" for some titles even though there's already the global rule for "no pausing" because certain games have grown (external) communities where pausing is considered normal.

    I don't think the "1 player" was put on the tittle of these tracks for a good reason (like preventing more players from using the same controller), I think it was due to the creator of the tracks not knowing the game very well.

    Also, I said in my post that I would create a log with all the edits so that everybody can review them, is not like I'm going to start changing track tittles willy-nilly. But if you think I'm biased and I'm going to damage the integrity of the scoreboard, I respect your opinion, I don't agree at all, but I respect it.

  14. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola


    I don't think the "1 player" was put on the tittle of these tracks for a good reason (like preventing more players from using the same controller), I think it was due to the creator of the tracks not knowing the game very well.

    Also, I said in my post that I would create a log with all the edits so that everybody can review them, is not like I'm going to start changing track tittles willy-nilly. But if you think I'm biased and I'm going to damage the integrity of the scoreboard, I respect your opinion, I don't agree at all, but I respect it.

    The problem I have - even with Jace & Franny performing the edits - is the history log is immediately lost. It's not like the history of the original is preserved. There's no "here's the exact original version" option anywhere on the scoreboard. Discussions around titles often have to dig through archive.org with hope to figure out what's going on & that includes this generation of TG. Multiple destructive edits continue to happen.

    Quick test: what was the original title of https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/pac-man/mame/points-tg-settings/page/1?ref=fbshare ? The rules also were modified multiple times in this generation but where's the history? If it can't be produced actively where the scoreboard sits in the scoreboard's history then why is some log buried deep in the forums or your wall more relevant than the scoreboard's own title & rules? That's what an eventual argument will need to produce when the inevitable slip happens: simple typos like "now/not".

    Any human editor when there's no preservation feature on the scoreboard is going to screw up.

  15. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax


    The problem I have - even with Jace & Franny performing the edits - is the history log is immediately lost. It's not like the history of the original is preserved.

    Jace is the owner of this site, he doesn't have to answer to anybody, so there is no need for him to report the changes he makes. He could shut down the entire site tomorrow without any warning if he wanted to. In my case, I'm just a passionate user trying to help the site, that's why I would inform everybody of the changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    There's no "here's the exact original version" option anywhere on the scoreboard. Discussions around titles often have to dig through archive.org with hope to figure out what's going on & that includes this generation of TG.

    But that's exactly what I'm saying I would do, create a log of "here's the original and here's the edit".

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    Quick test: what was the original title of https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/pac-man/mame/points-tg-settings/page/1?ref=fbshare ? The rules also were modified multiple times in this generation but where's the history?

    I don't know, I didn't do any changes to that and I don't know that game well enough to try to change anything. Ask Jace about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    If it can't be produced actively where the scoreboard sits in the scoreboard's history then why is some log buried deep in the forums or your wall more relevant than the scoreboard's own title & rules? That's what an eventual argument will need to produce when the inevitable slip happens: simple typos like "now/not".

    You seem to think that any edits at all, only cause damage and I don't agree at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    Any human editor when there's no preservation feature on the scoreboard is going to screw up.

    Only humans can create and edit stuff so I don't know what your solution would be? Or are you saying there is no solution and all errors should just be left there? And what about the incorrect name of the game I gave the example on? How am I going to do damage by correcting it?

    And again, with my edits, there would be a preservation feature and if I make a mistake, it can be reverted.

    Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and yours is that I'm biased, I'm going to screw up and cause damage to this site. I just hope that the community and specially Jace doesn't think so. And if in the end my request is not accepted, that's fine, I'll just keep submitting scores, creating tracks and asking admin staff to fix the errors in the "Report Errors" thread.

    Updated 02-17-2021 at 12:40 AM by Pixe Sukola
  16. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

    Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and yours is that I'm biased, I'm going to screw up and cause damage to this site. I just hope that the community and specially Jace doesn't think so. And if in the end my request is not accepted, that's fine, I'll just keep submitting scores, creating tracks and asking admin staff to fix the errors in the "Report Errors" thread.

    You are human, I am human, Jace is human, etc. Which human doesn't make any difference to my point. Humans make mistakes.

    Saying that you (as a human) keep a log just confirms that's a bunch more potential mistakes that could be made in human act of logging. The computer system(s) have to keep the log. Until that happens, there's no preservation feature of the site - only human intent & that's full of holes.

    Human vs. computer (on the assumption the human programmer gets it right, of course but at least it'd be consistently computed!).

  17. redelf's Avatar

    I love the idea of you going into the track names and fixing spelling errors and tidying up things. It would be nice to get all the game that have a title name be able to be found with that one title name. Not exactly sure what I'm trying to say but I know sometimes you will type into search the game title you are looking for but won't find it. Things like added words or other characters change it. 1. "" 2. ' 3. () 4. - and I'm sure others. The other example I'm thinking of is when you are looking at a mame game and click on the title you are looking it will bring up the main platform and then in the drop down menu you can see the other tracks. Well sometime when you do this the game name has some weird character attachment or something else attached to it and there wont be any other tracks under that game name.

    Anyway thanks for volunteering and doing what must be done to make things better, all work and effort to make a better sight is always welcomed but not always acknowledged or noticed.

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  18. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax


    You are human, I am human, Jace is human, etc. Which human doesn't make any difference to my point. Humans make mistakes.

    Saying that you (as a human) keep a log just confirms that's a bunch more potential mistakes that could be made in human act of logging.

    Holly molly Andrew, so I'm going to make mistakes while trying to fix errors and then I'm going to make more mistakes while logging the mistakes I'm trying to fix. Maybe we should just stop any humans from creating anything, just out of fear of mistakes being made.

    If you don't have any confidence in yourself or in other humans, I do, and I believe I can help more than I can mess up things here.

  19. Barthax's Avatar

    Ah, the reaction of the human taking offence rather than the logical one about ensuroing the history is preserved. The scoreboard has been fucked up by every generation & somehow the latest generation is always perfect. I'll leave the conversation there.

  20. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax

    Ah, the reaction of the human taking offence rather than the logical one about ensuroing the history is preserved. The scoreboard has been fucked up by every generation & somehow the latest generation is always perfect. I'll leave the conversation there.

    I'm not offended, I just strongly disagree with what you are saying and of course I'm not perfect, what kind of crazy person would I be to think that?

    And about ensuring that history is preserved, I've told you at least 4 times that I would log stuff and if any mistakes are made, that can be used to revert them, so I don't know what else to tell you. How about I take a screenshot of the original name of the track and then another one of the edited track? Would that process be free of mistakes?

    You just don't like the idea of fixing anything, this reminds me of the discussion we had when I first joined about the rules for Tekken 5. The rules say you need to set the game to a certain difficulty for Time Attack mode and I said that the difficulty in the settings do not affect that mode, the game itself says it in the Mode Select screen. I showed you the evidence and you still said to me that I was arguing for a change because I didn't have the skill to play in the hardest difficulty and that if I didn't like the rules I should just create a new track instead of fixing the current one, that shows how unreasonable you can be sometimes even when irrefutable proof is being presented to you.

    Fortunately admin staff did listen to me and added this information in the additional info section while also preserving the old and erroneous rules.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/tekken-5/playstation-2/ntsc-time-attack-mode-fastest-completion/page/1?ref=fbshare

    Updated 02-17-2021 at 02:45 AM by Pixe Sukola
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