Dispute: John McAllister - M.A.M.E. - Contra [US] - 1 Player Only [Points] - - Player: Rudy Chavez - Score: 3,339,900

M.A.M.E. - Contra [US] - 1 Player Only [Points] -
Score Track	https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=15634
Rules	ROM Set = 0.106-0.123: contra - "Contra (US)" 0.123u1-0.161: contra1 - "Contra (US, set 2)" 0.162- : contra1 - "Contra (US / Asia, set 2)" Difficulty = "NORMAL" Starting Lives = 3 Bonus Lives = 30,000 then 70,000 Flip Screen = "ON" NOTE - Continues are NOT allowed
Player Name	Rudy Chavez
Original Adjudication	N/A
Verification Method	INP
Verification Date	2008-07-21
Disputed Score	3,339,900 (Rank 1)
Disputed By	redelf
Dispute Evidence / Rationale	Score isn't possible without excessive leeching. Accepted leeching is dying once per timer cycle. You can leech points forever in the maze and I believe this was done. I'll provide more evidence as I beat all records except this one related to Contra on mame and arcade.

I was thinking a long time ago this track was "grandfathered". It was then revived. The score was definitely done by using known tactics in the tunnels.

In my opinion, it will always be a little grey since the number of lives isn't limited. That's why I think it's kind of a bad track in general. The tracks with life limits make it more clean cut.... but then it becomes the game of who waits around the longest before the invisible timer runs out. The game does get harder the higher your score is. So it's still kind of fun but difficult to differentiate skill once you reach a certain point of game play.

Attachment 94556


Well that's about the max that can be done with 3+1 lives track. Getting another 860k with extra lives still can't be done. There is only 4 more spots where you can sac a life in the tunnels without it exploiting either the timer or the general rule of progressing in the game. In the tunnels you can gain more lives than you lose. In the game I just played I sacked 3 lives in the 2nd set of tunnels and pressed the timer in all other areas to within 10 seconds or so. If I had extra lives I could have gained another 300k in the tunnels but risked not having the spread gun exiting the 2nd set of tunnels and reaching the eye ball level. The eye balls level with the spread gun can get you around 280k, without the spread gun you might get 50k or so and probably die lots of times.

That's pretty interesting John. I've known over 2,200,000 was possible but 2,480,000 is quite a bit higher. Care to share the break down per level?

What you are disputing has been discussed a bit in this thread:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/154428

I'll let the others decide on this one. I'm not voting one way or another... but either way you should try and take down the 3 + 1 life arcade record for Contra. :)

End of Waterfall 328000
End of 2nd tunnel 827000
End of eye balls 1108000
Beginning of Alien 1418000

Could get another 30-50k with a better run and tighter time pressing.

I can see from those other runs on the other consoles that this dispute will never complete, as a few too many people believe that those runs didn't leech because a timer was involved. So no point in trying with this one anymore. I'll just move on to other things

I remember when this track came back from retirement. I was asking about it somewhere at the time, maybe State of the Galaxies?, and the answer was that if I'd like to get rid of the "point pressing" I could just create a new track with new rules to eliminate that. In the end, the better track would come out on top.

This was also back when you could give stars to each individual track. So, if for example, Contra 3+1 track got 5 stars and the Normal track only got 1 star, and more people would vote that way, the old track would be pushed down.

I ended up creating a 3+1 track for Xbox Live Arcade and maybe also Arcade version. I can't recall?

I do remember however, that we had a long answer from Jace regarding tracks that didn't stop you from sitting in a corner and shoot enemies for days for points, and if that wasn't your jam, you could just create a new track.

Since my score was rejected this should be a no brainer

This is clear leeching - enough points can be gained (with little/no risk) to earn multiple extra lives before the timer runs out, and the tactic can be repeated indefinitely.

The score should be removed - voting yes.

VOTING YES.

@redelf if your score for this track was declined, that is a mistake.

I found old State of the Galaxies videos where @Jace Hall re-opened the previously grandfathered tracks. He made it clear in another dispute that leeching on legacy tracks that were previously grandfathered was ok.

This particular track in this here dispute for Contra on the MAME platform was previously grandfathered and has now been re-opened and leeching is allowed.

see this other dispute thread for verification
https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...=1#post1061827

Voting No