Dispute: WILLIAM MCEVOY - Atari 2600 / VCS - Bachelor Party - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B (Points) - Player: Robert T Mruczek - Score: 5,555

Atari 2600 / VCS - Bachelor Party - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B (Points)
Score Track	https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=2313
Rules	Game 1 = one-player; two rows of four women (easier difficulty). Difficulty switch must be in the B position. On this setting, the Spanish Fly is slightly smaller and more difficult to hit.
Player Name	Robert T Mruczek
Original Adjudication	N/A
Verification Method	Referee
Verification Date	2001-05-09
Disputed Score	5,555 (Rank 3)
Disputed By	datagod
Dispute Evidence / Rationale	Robert Mruczek has stated that this title should not be tracked because it is " Mystique" and Twin Galaxies should not be tracking them. I have to agree. While I cannot dispute the track itself, I will dispute this score at Robert's own request. Attachment 109488 Note: I understand this is an unusual dispute. This is where RTM made the request. https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/180398-Dispute-william-rosa-Atari-2600-VCS-Journey-Escape-NTSC-Dollars-Player-Robert-T-Mruczek-Score-2-054-302?p=1079763#post1079763

i have an issue with as well as questions. Let me start with where i can see the point and partially agree before moving on to my disagreement. I definitley dont like the custer's revenge track i've made no secret that i think rape is the one thing that crosses a line that i dont should even be in fictional games. I'm not thrilled with sexism either, but being as its a spectrum, it would open a real can of worms to try to remove every sexist game.

now where i disagree
1. All such tracks are allowed no. we can disapprove of a track, but its our place to judge scores, not tracks. Ultimately track removal is admin job only
2. The rationale confuses me, i see plenty of evidence against the rationale but none supporting. Multiple such tracks exist, and the chief ref (player here) even submitted the innaugral score. This sure implies to me that tracks werent just snuck in and were very much formally approved and intended. Of course, i dont have access to private ref forums so hence some questions...
Questions
1. yes people are allowed to change their opinion, but RTM i have to ask, you were clearly ok with this track at one point, what changed your mind?
2. you wiped out many completley appropriate tracks such as dodge 'em that had no offensive material whatsoever, so i dont understand if this was such an issue why you would've left it up. you've shown a willingness to wipe out tracks as chief ref for tracks you werent first place on, so why is it this track when you were first place on was so ok?
3. talking about mystique across the board, are there any formal statements about removing them. You making such statements as a member years later after being banned doesnt count, but you making such statements while chief ref for example, or others refs making such statements while ref would be legitimate documentation
4. if this track is removed whats stop a new user from recreating it? other tracks rtm annihlated such as dodge 'em were reinstated after he was banned, but those scores removed couldnt be put back and were gone. so all the removal and reinstatement did was wipe out good scores. Will jace make a new rule governing track creation to prevent deleted tracks from being created? Wil we get guidance on what sorts of other tracks we cant make?
5. this is much more opinion and a personal note. but mame "lover boy" and atari vcs "custer's revegenge" i find to be the two most egregious examples of offensive tracks, if this one is to be removed will those two also be looked at?


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Abstaining for now, but heavily leaning towards "no this is not a valid dispute".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

Abstaining for now, but heavily leaning towards "no this is not a valid dispute".

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I am sorry to see you are already up for a fight. This isn't necessary. Just accept and move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by datagod

I am sorry to see you are already up for a fight. This isn't necessary. Just accept and move on.

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bro, its the nature of the dispute, i did preface it with where i see the agreement, but i feel my questions and issues are valid. provide answers or counter points or suck it up

Not a valid dispute. Disputes are for investigating if a score happened or not. While there is merit to having a conversation about if TG should track games or not based on their content, this is not the venue for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdwyer138

Not a valid dispute. Disputes are for investigating if a score happened or not. While there is merit to having a conversation about if TG should track games or not based on their content, this is not the venue for that.

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Is there an appropriate venue for RTM to request his score be taken down? I can understand why he would not want to be associated with a pervy game. I know I wouldn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

i have an issue with as well as questions. Let me start with where i can see the point and partially agree before moving on to my disagreement. I definitley dont like the custer's revenge track i've made no secret that i think rape is the one thing that crosses a line that i dont should even be in fictional games. I'm not thrilled with sexism either, but being as its a spectrum, it would open a real can of worms to try to remove every sexist game.

now where i disagree
1. All such tracks are allowed no. we can disapprove of a track, but its our place to judge scores, not tracks. Ultimately track removal is admin job only
2. The rationale confuses me, i see plenty of evidence against the rationale but none supporting. Multiple such tracks exist, and the chief ref (player here) even submitted the innaugral score. This sure implies to me that tracks werent just snuck in and were very much formally approved and intended. Of course, i dont have access to private ref forums so hence some questions...
Questions
1. yes people are allowed to change their opinion, but RTM i have to ask, you were clearly ok with this track at one point, what changed your mind?
2. you wiped out many completley appropriate tracks such as dodge 'em that had no offensive material whatsoever, so i dont understand if this was such an issue why you would've left it up. you've shown a willingness to wipe out tracks as chief ref for tracks you werent first place on, so why is it this track when you were first place on was so ok?
3. talking about mystique across the board, are there any formal statements about removing them. You making such statements as a member years later after being banned doesnt count, but you making such statements while chief ref for example, or others refs making such statements while ref would be legitimate documentation
4. if this track is removed whats stop a new user from recreating it? other tracks rtm annihlated such as dodge 'em were reinstated after he was banned, but those scores removed couldnt be put back and were gone. so all the removal and reinstatement did was wipe out good scores. Will jace make a new rule governing track creation to prevent deleted tracks from being created? Wil we get guidance on what sorts of other tracks we cant make?
5. this is much more opinion and a personal note. but mame "lover boy" and atari vcs "custer's revegenge" i find to be the two most egregious examples of offensive tracks, if this one is to be removed will those two also be looked at?


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Abstaining for now, but heavily leaning towards "no this is not a valid dispute".

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ABSOLUTELY NO!!! How self-centered and selfish of him...
So again, going back to his old ways, he "suddenly" does not think its appropriate, therefore get rid of the score?

THEN WHY SUBMIT FOR IT AT ALL?

Felt a little horny at the time?

Geez, the corruption never ends with his imperious ways!

The score stays, and he will have to live with his own embarrassment!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by datagod

Is there an appropriate venue for RTM to request his score be taken down? I can understand why he would not want to be associated with a pervy game. I know I wouldn't.

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let him make another forum post or email jace

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

let him make another forum post or email jace

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Well at least you are being civil for once. Thank for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

let him make another forum post or email jace

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Forget that! What makes him so special?

If he wants that special treatment, take it up with "Nik the Dik" instead!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrhfSBbu1bY