M.A.M.E. - Track & Field - Points - 91,800 - Brian Woodward

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10-22-2015, 05:14 AM
gstrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conjured Entertainment

Dude, I explained how the buttons are arcade micro switches wired to a keyboard encoder.
AGAIN, pressing the micro switch is the same as pressing a key on the keyboard.
No Autofire was used!
The only refusal was your refusing to listen to the answer given.

You refused to describe what technique you used with the controls for button presses for running and jumping. For example. 2, 3 or 4 finger tapping on one button while jumping with the other, or 6 finger technique using 3 rolling fingers on each run button, taking one hand off to press jump when needed. And you refused to even entertain the idea of making an actual video showing you play the 110M Hurdles in a time like from your submission for us to judge your abilities. All you said was "I used buttons and didn't use auto-fire" without giving any details on what you actually did do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aieoiue

At least his willing to duplicate an arcade performance, unlike the Galaga 20million 11 hour 34% hit ratio reply of "maybe" knowing there's several computer aided programs out there that are undetectable. The inp and wlf passed, no autofire were used. Accept it or reject it, no need to question or criticize his performance.

The .inp passing and .wlf passing do not mean that auto-fire was not used. I'm not sure why people seem to think that. It's not true and is not how WolfMAME works.

With regard to criticizing him, When rejecting a submission it makes perfect sense to explain why I'm rejecting it.. I've also seen no evidence of him actually duplicating this as an arcade performance. If so please provide a link to that video. Saying "I may provide a video at some indeterminate point in the future" doesn't help us in adjudicating this submission.

-George
10-22-2015, 05:24 AM
Conjured Entertainment

Quote:

For example. 2, 3 or 4 finger tapping on one button while jumping with the other, or 6 finger technique using 3 rolling fingers on each run button, taking one hand off to press jump when needed. And you refused to even entertain the idea of making an actual video showing you play the 110M Hurdles in a time like from your submission for us to judge your abilities. All you said was "I used buttons and didn't use auto-fire" without giving any details on what you actually did do.

Why in the hell would I be required to coach you on button pressing in order to submit a high score.
It sounds like you know a lot more techniques than I do anyway, so you obviously don't need my help there.
Pick one of those and use your imagination.

Quote:

The .inp passing and .wlf passing do not mean that auto-fire was not used. I'm not sure why people seem to think that. It's not true and is not how WolfMAME works.

That is more proof than you have of auto fire being used, isn't it?
If you have a deep understanding of how MAME does or doesn't work, then you should have no problem offering your proof,huh?

Quote:

"I may provide a video at some indeterminate point in the future" doesn't help us in adjudicating this submission

You may have misunderstood me.
I have no intention of submitting a video on how I press buttons for this submission.

If the video is optional for this track, then rejecting it for the lack of a video is a bit outside of the rules, isn't it?
10-22-2015, 05:39 AM
Conjured Entertainment

Quote:

The .inp passing and .wlf passing do not mean that auto-fire was not used. I'm not sure why people seem to think that. It's not true and is not how WolfMAME works.

You know what...
I never even used wolfmame until I got here, and I was told that it is being used here because it has anti-cheat measures built in.
GREAT!
I had no problem switching over thanks to Daniel, and I welcome anti-cheat measures.
Now, you imply that I am bypassing the wolfmame security to sneak in auto fire?
Thanks for the compliment, but I could not crack wolfmame security that fast if I wanted to, and I don't want to.
10-22-2015, 05:45 AM
Aieoiue

MAME does not require additional video evidence nor a detailed explanation of how a score was achieved. Asking the player is something, demanding it is another. He said when he submits a arcade video, the video will include what it needs to. Everything passed, he's only lying to himself not anyone if anything was done illegally.
10-22-2015, 09:16 AM
Barthax

Both sides have a standing & they don't have to meet in the middle here.

TG doesn't require video proof for any submission: the community are the ones that decide whether video proof is required. The community has collectively decided that video proof is not required for MAME submissions.

WolfMAME has anti-cheat measures but isn't perfect - there's only so-much it can detect and George is correct in this aspect. George has explained that this title has a long history of people cheating and as such George wishes to hold this title to a higher standard of proof until he is willing to accept a performance. This is George's right to which he has explained this quite openly and plainly. His question concerning precise finger technique is understandable: the INP shows fairly precise repetition albeit with a bias towards button 1, not 3 - suggesting human input but could still be external automated input. My own curiosity, having watched Hec's videos, is how you keep up the rapidity of buttons 1 & 3 while holding button 2: there's no hint at a break in the rapidity of 1 & 3 during long jump and javelin.
10-22-2015, 09:19 AM
Fly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conjured Entertainment

Why in the hell would I be required to coach you on button pressing in order to submit a high score.
It sounds like you know a lot more techniques than I do anyway, so you obviously don't need my help there.
Pick one of those and use your imagination.

He's not trying to steal any techniques. He's simply trying to figure out if you really are capable of doing the times you submitted since an inp alone is a horrible form of evidence on the title.

Hec
10-22-2015, 09:27 AM
Fly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conjured Entertainment

If the video is optional for this track, then rejecting it for the lack of a video is a bit outside of the rules, isn't it?

The rules have been explaind as; Accept if you believe the player did the score, reject if you dont believe the player got the score. A video can easily remedy the situation. It's your call.

If I ever get around to viewing it, I'll vote reject just from the things you posted.

Or I might just vote without watching. I've heard enough to make a decision. The rules dont say I have to watch anything.

Hec
10-22-2015, 09:47 AM
bensweeneyonbass

This is a poll for the pros. I'm abstaining as I know little about MAME and this arcade title. The analysis of the INP down to the detail of the repetition patterns on the inputs is really impressive though!
10-22-2015, 09:51 AM
Barthax

Quote:

Originally Posted by bensweeneyonbass

This is a poll for the pros. I'm abstaining as I know little about MAME and this arcade title. The analysis of the INP down to the detail of the repetition patterns on the inputs is really impressive though!

For those viewing: press P to pause the run and then SHIFT+P to skip one frame at a time.

For this INP, you can see over time that it is not a precise on/off in the INP. Buttons 1 & 3 are rarely pressed together and the alternating could be attributed to both 1 & 3 buttons being next to each other with the fingers running across the pair - only video proof would ascertain the precise alternating method.
10-22-2015, 10:53 AM
Barthax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barthax

For those viewing: press P to pause the run and then SHIFT+P to skip one frame at a time.

Just going to qualify this a little better: you need to use the command-line version with the parameter -iv 1 for this to work.

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