Does he say anything else important? Seems like you're missing some of the message.
I do wish the evidence was presented a bit more neatly. I'd like to help you for next time if that's alright
You don't need to take images from a camera. You can press the "Print Screen" button on your keyboard to capture everything on your monitor, and then you can select what you want in Paint, and then right click and use crop to take out what you don't want for privacy's sake. When that's done, you can right click and choose select all. Right one last time for the copy option. You can then paste it into the reply here!
Also, since his message is too long for the normal chat, I'd highly recommend you open it in Messenger. That is really simple too: click the gear on the top and then select "Open on Messenger". You should be able to grab the full message in one pic.
One final note: There is an option called "paste as plain text" right below paste. Since I use the dark theme the black text was hard for me to read without highlighting it.
For now, I'm just going to drop these images so people can read them without rotating their head.
Attachment 116985 Attachment 116986
Howdy, everyone! Nothing too earth-shattering tonight, but I've been doing some score analysis as part of what should soon be a fresh coat of paint on my "Evidence against" post over at Donkey Kong Forum. And since I'm trying to keep things short over there, I wanted to established an observation in more detail here.
Billy likes to say he's "duplicated" or "recreated" his contested scores, even going so far as to say he hit them "exactly on the head". (He hasn't.) Here he says it at 1:37:13:
But in addition to objectively not matching his targeted scores of yesteryear (like the ones that were exactly 1,100 more than his competitor at the time, likely an attempt to foreshadow a claimed tape of 1.1 million), he hasn't matched his scoring pace at all. Not even close.
I'm not going to get into a full presentation on Billy's scoring pace at this time (that's something that I hope to put together at a later date), but a quick shortcut is to simply look at what score Billy was at deep into his run. Specifically today, we're going to look at his score at the very start of level 21 (six boards before the kill screen).
Thanks to Robert Mruczek's score analysis from back in the day, we actually have a full score breakdown of Billy's 1.014m game (the phantom tape that was shown publicly once, then submitted to counter a Steve Wiebe submission, then later retracted and never seen again). In that game, Billy completed rivet board 20-6 with a score of 971,500. Billy's later 1.047m tape ended that same board with a score of 989,400. Of course, both of these scores are impressive from a novice perspective, but surely Billy with his chicanery can do even better than that!
Most of Billy's live Twitch scores (which feature no known chicanery) are about in the same space as those. His first live 1,000,000 score in July 2018 had 960,200 after board 20-6. His 1,047,500 and 1,050,100 games later in 2018 (the ones where he recreated his 1,047,200 and 1,050,200 scores "exactly on the head") are a little higher than those old tapes, clocking in at 995,300 and 993,800 respectively heading into level 21. But still no million on L=20.
But here's where we kick up the pace! In June 2020, shortly after Steve Wiebe picked the game back up and coolly knocked out a 1.1 million game, Billy took a live game all the way to the kill screen, racking up a total of 1,092,100 points. Now, it's easy to look at that and say "Woah, not only did he 'recreate' his 1,062,800 score, he got almost 30,000 more points!" But, again, we're not looking at final totals here. We're looking at score pace. Billy's score at the end of 20-6 / start of 21-1 can be seen here:
So he had 1,033,200 at the end of level 20. How does that compare to Billy's 1,050,200 (a.k.a. the "Mortgage Brokers" score)?
So yeah, even Billy's mortgage brokers score, which ended about 40,000 lower than his June 2020 score, still had that score beat by over 5,000 heading into level 21. Remember, this was about hitting exactly 1,100 points more than Wiebe. Not only did that game not reach the kill screen, it never even finished 21-1. Billy played that barrel board for a while until he hit his target score, killed off that life, and then abandoned his last life altogether. The reason his June 2020 score ended with a higher score was because (shocker) he actually kept playing. He still has yet to reach the pace he had in his 2007 tape.
So at this point, we've already shot down this whole "Billy recreated his scores" bit in a few different ways. But we can always add one more nail to that coffin, can't we?
I had noticed this score comparison some time back, and others had observed it as well. I didn't find it worthy enough to post by itself (at least not without doing up a full presentation on Billy's overall score pace). But I just noticed something I thought was cool. I got to thinking "Hey, I wonder what his score looked like on the Big Bang video." That's the one that gets left out the most, because we only have bits of footage of the end, courtesy of David Race and a couple others filming the presentation in Ottumwa. Is it possible we could glean any relevant data from that?
Here's the end of the last rivet board on Billy's tape, as seen in the David Race footage:
Geez, you can barely make out the score in white, and you have no chance of figuring out whether that blue text above the bonus timer is L=20, L=21, or anything.
Here's the first shot of the first barrel board of the following level:
Note that no points are gained between levels (obviously). Still hard to make out the score, and still impossible to figure out what level it is. That bonus timer could be 6,000, or it could be 8,000. (That's a clue, BTW.)
Here it is a little further along. So that timer definitely started at 8,000. It's hard to see in still shots, but in motion, you can clearly see it counting down with a leading 7. Notably, Billy is just letting his last two lives die off here at 21-1. This means, while we might still have a hard time reading that score carried over from 20-6, we know it's the final score of 1,062,800 (with the display omitting the millions digit).
That's where David zooms in on the final score. Another good look at the bonus timer at 7,600. You can kiiiiinda maaaaybe see a "L=21" in blue above the timer, but there's no way to be sure. And since Billy just let the blue barrel kill off both his last lives, there isn't really a way to tell whether this was the start of level 21 or the kill screen at level 22, is there?
It turns out, there is!
Hardcore DK people already know this, but I looked for something visible that might differentiate the kill screen from a normal barrel board. And then I remembered, the timer does that!
Recall above the image from Billy's 1.092m score from this year, where the barrel board timer starts at 8,000. It immediately ticks down to 7,900 when Mario appears at the bottom. Here's how the kill screen looks from later that same game:
Rather than starting at 8,000, the timer starts at a paltry 100! But don't worry, it actually shoots UP to 4,000 when Mario appears a second later:
That's before the game kills you about four seconds later, with the bonus timer still displaying 3,700.
Here's an example on MAME from 2007, both of the normal barrel board timer and of the kill screen timer:
So that barrel board that starts ticking down from 8000 is definitely NOT the kill screen. In fact, it's technically possible it could even be prior to level 21, but let's be fair (and realistic) and just assume it was the latest full barrel board possible.
So here, again, is a comparison of the three games over one million points by the end of level 20:
1.05m (July 2007) - 1,038,400
1.062m (July 2010) - 1,062,800
1.092m (June 2020) - 1,033,200
So yeah, that's another way Billy has yet to "redo" his contested scores. Better get cracking on that extra ~30,000 point gap, Billy!
I'd just like to close by pointing out one last thing I thought was cool. We have full tapes of the 1.047m and 1.05m. We have no tape of the 1.014m, but we have a score analysis (courtesy of RTM). And we have little scoring for the 1.062m, but we have some tape. So we can compare the two full games all we want, and sometimes we can compare them to the 1.014m (when talking score pace), and sometimes we can compare them to the 1.062m (when talking three-girder screens). But besides the final score, this is a rare point of data that we can actually compare across each of these four "direct feed" Billy games. I just thought that was neat.
Thanks for posting this update, Ersatz_cats. I missed that interview with Mitchell, it's weird that he would state that he hit his removed scores "exactly on the head" on stream since they're not - both for raw point total and as you correctly point out, and for pacing which among DK players was just as (if not more) significant. By leaving points unplayed and ending his game prematurely, it was another way for him to show his superior gameplay - his closest competitors were pushing themselves to the max to point press to the kill screen, but he wasn't even pushing himself to the brink when he got those scores. I'm not sure I'd call it a "taunt" against his competitors, but it most definitely was deliberate and only enhanced his reputation. And that's an interesting change among those who follow Mitchell today on Twitch, etc - they simply hold him up as the former champ, usually citing KoK as their touchstone ("You're still the King of Kong!") but his reputation in the CAG community in the 2000s was "bigger" than just holding down the top score, it was HOW he did it. And that's what makes your analysis and comparison of his games really interesting, linking all four for comparison purposes - kudos.
What's really weird is that if you think through what Mitchell is arguing - well, we'll settle on one of his arguments for now - that the tapes aren't his (for the 1.047, 1.050, 1.062 scores), what we're left with is a situation where Mitchell has created his "most famous video gamer" reputation based on DK feats that no one in the world has ever seen on tape. It would be like Tiger Woods carrying himself as the greatest golfer to play the game while at the same time denying ownership of any recordings depicting him in his championship victories during the 2000s.
Picking up on the 1.014 million game, it would be really interesting to see that tape for historical purposes. When he withdrew the score from consideration, presumably Walter Day returned it to Mitchell since TG only retains tapes for accepted scores?
Yo everyone! I just posted a write-up, revealing new audio of Billy in 2018 hatching a plot to falsify evidence with the express intent of disrupting the score dispute:
The audio was submitted to court this week, and was accessed through downloading recent court filings (which are behind a paywall). The write-up is long, and goes into the full background of David Race's participation in the dispute. (He's the one who provided the recordings.) But if you want something shorter that just gets to the point, I posted only the ending portion over to Donkey Kong Forum here:
BTW, definitely save that audio!
this is interesting cause many things can made to be sound bad when they're not. here i think it puts us in an awkward position where billy normally takes good things his opponents do and frames them in a way that sounds bad that can be dififcult to argue against in the timespan peoples attention span care for. here is the opposite. truth be told, i dont have a problem with billy's plan to test tg, i see it more as a blind study, and if someone submits on his behalf its like a double blind study testing if analyzers are as good as they say. but heres the odd part, billys whos very conscious of how misleading sound bytes can be, planned something, that while i personally agree is fine, certainly sounds awful. "billy plans to falsify evidence to help prove his discredited scores" sounds terrible for him! the only people willing to take the time and be thorough enough to consider that in this case the evidence was meant as a test will only be understood, and only not sound terrible to the exact same sort of people who have the same attention to detail to see all the incriminated stuff. making me wonder who the target audience? those who are thorough wont be affected at all, those who arent thorough will either view this negatively or not care but in no way helps.
Thanks for the exhaustive and thorough write-up on your Wall, Ersatz_cats - this was a big update, and a lot of ground to cover, including the latest TG submissions to the court. It was a doozy too.
Snowflake, you're getting soft in your old age! A double blind study testing to see if the analyzers are good? It would be interesting to see Mitchell's counsel make that pitch to the judge and/or jury - that Mitchell's goal was to conduct a quality assurance audit to identify weaknesses in the TG dispute review process, and that the expected out come was to provide recommendations to address any weaknesses in policies and procedures identified in his investigation in order to improve and make the process more robust.
I had to go back and re-read Mitchell's plan, and he did specifically share his hope that the anonymous submission of a direct feed 1,062,800 DK tape followed up by a second narrated "over the shoulder" tape of the same game would "destroy [Jace's] credibility" and that the "idiots" would be "caught on the carpet," and that the entire exercise would be his way of "stickin it to them." Mitchell also anticipated being banned once he dropped the second video and revealed his involvement, but what would we be left with in the end? Presuming that Jace's credibility was destroyed and that the idiots were caught on the carpet, in my estimation the result (goal? objective?) would be a dispute review where the totality of the evidence would be "discredited-by-association." You'd think it would be easier to follow Rob Childs' instruction for setting up a direct feed to VCR to get MAME-like transitions and submit that tape instead - that way, no one gets banned, no one gets sued, and Mitchell remains on the leaderboard. But if you couldn't do that, I suppose a tainted dispute review process would allow anyone to say "you know, after what happened, you can't really trust anything that was raised in that dispute against the DK scores."
Now like you I don't think this plan would have worked - in the event that Mitchell did put his plan into action, TG members would have reviewed the frames of the "is this Mitchell's 1.062 tape?", noted they were arcade-generated, and then compared it to existing footage of the Boomer's direct feed, and then concluded that "this" 1,062,800 tape is not the same as "that" Boomer's 1,062,800 tape. At which point, Mitchell I suppose could have held back on dropping tape #2 and we wouldn't be any the wiser about his involvement. So in that sense, I do see that it would have indirectly highlighted the integrity of the dispute review, but that most certainly was not the primary goal of the top secret plan based on my read.
the issue i have with the plan, is despite as it was stated it would be a test rather than an abuse i certainly doubt his motives and claims to david. I'm pretty sure if verifies said "yep its authentic arcade, but we dont think this is the real submission" he wouldnt say "well done you passed my test" he'd say "wow just cant accept my score is real, these are the real tapes and what you gys have are the fakes" and we'd be bakc to the "dwayne did it" nonsense and that would be an abuse of the scoreboard