Arcade - Shock Troopers - [Points[Single Player Only]] - 3,816,000

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muerto

Don't know about this one, old EPROM's and other chips fail all the time, but for now you can find replacement chips.

Burning a new chip with the same code as the old faulty one, is a different story (in my opinion) and dosen't affect the program running on the original hardware.

But this is an Arcade track, where a NEO GEO - MULTI MVS was used, which is considered bootleg (as it's not the real Shocktroopers MVS cartridge) that's why I think it's not a valid Arcade performance.

It's a little hard to explain, as English is not my first language.

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You voice it well, so I don't think anything has been lost in translation. :D

The rules as they stand are with you, in my opinion: Arcade submissions are not excepted by the rules for "third-party" stuff and so "only" original components are permitted. However, you do point out that chip replacements are acceptable: which many other people consider "third-party". This is a third-party system which presents the same signals to the board as the original chip. Using a replacement cartridge which presents the same signals on the connection as the original is acceptable on "home" platforms and is allowed by the global rules: many adjudicators are well versed in seeing this.

The rules don't support this submission but multiple members of the adjudicators don't see the distinction between Arcade and Home (because it's just gaming machines). The rules can't be changed until TG staff acknowledge and consider if they need to be changed. TG will only consider that if this (or similar) submission is accepted and then disputed.

For those that wish to accept replacement cartridges and get the rules changed, this should be accepted and then disputed by those same people to get TG to change the rules.
For those that wish TG to re-affirmed that only original components should be used in Arcade machines, this would need to be accepted and then disputed by those same people.

It's all arse-backwards. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unvoting, unsubbing.

I'm not going to read this entire thread. All I'm going to say is that I have a bunch of Neo Geo 1 slot boards and they don't look like that homemade thing you got there.

My original 1 slot CMVS looked suss as well ha. You can still verify the boards by their SNK labeling, but the main problem with a majority of CMVS submissions will be in relation to the added BIOS.

And since Shock Troopers was a MVS exclusive it shouldn't be accepted as a AES submission if done with a flash cart on the original home console.


If you could provide info to the community and TG ruling staff informing them about how the bios works and that you're still running the correct ROM on original hardware it might help future submissions. Not enough Neo records around so it's always good to see more pop up, esp great games.

I seem to recall that we've had the mvs multicart discussion before?

I believe @timmell posted an Aero Fighters 2 score for MVS, using a 161-in-1 cartridge, a while back, and the community came to the conclusion that the 161-in-1 had inaccurate emulation. It's been a while and I haven't looked up the discussion so I'm not 100%

I can see he has a score in the database right now with a NeoSD cartridge.

I hope @YesAffinity could chime in as I seem to recall that he used a DarkSoft CPS-2 board for a Street Fighter Alpha submission, and I recall arguments being made why DarkSoft was ok.

I don't recall the 161-in-1 discussion but agree they are dubious carts with known inaccuracies. Unless there is a clear list of the known issues and everyone agrees that listbisb100% accurate, I would be hesitant to accept a run on a 161-in-1 cart.

I believe it was @EVN that has submitted scores performed on darksoft CPS-2. I was against it initially, but have accepted runs performed on them, after further discussion/evaluation. Anything darksoft is acceptable in my mind. It's not emulation, his products are comparable to accepted console multi carts.

Okay, just sifted through the thread and understand what the full discussion is about.

Omega cmvs is a neo 1 slot with a nice shell around it and some i/o modifications. It's a mvs+supergun in short. Not an issue for me. There are accepted submissions played on various flavors of supergun, this is just another flavor. Where did all the mvs mobos come from? Who knows, but I have a 4 slot in my neo candy 25 and a stand alone 1 slot I bought years ago off ebay when arcade parts were still reasonably priced.

Darksoft Neo multi, also not an issue for me, on the surface. But, does the ds neo multi run arcade roms, or some form of modified rom? If arcade roms, then no problem. I downloaded the ds neo rom rollup pack and did a spot check of some of the shock trooper roms with romident. They came back identified as true game code. However, I dont know if the files in the pack are fully representative of the chips found on an original mvs cart. Would have to look at a scan of the cart, verify there is a file for each of the rom chips on the original cart, and verify all files can be validated in romident. If that all checks out, then it's original code running on original hardware at that point. The hardware handles the timings, etc, no deviation from an original cart.

The unibios, now that may be a point of contention. Is there any precedence of a mvs run played on a system running on unibios being accepted? Unibios is a work in progress from my understanding, with ongoing updates by razoola. A WIP means things needing to be fixed/not complete, with an unquantifiable effect on gameplay.

The ps4 controller, well a bit more of a deviation from arcade or arcade-like controls than I Iike to see, but unless theres a major feature deviation as the rules assert, then its ultimately just directional registers and button presses in a different package. I've made that same arguement when using an arcade stick vs. original controllers on my own various accepted submissions in the past.

Did a comparison of the game cart scan, MAME set files and DS Multi Rollup Pack Files (screenshot attached).

m1 and srom check out in romident. srom in the DS multi files = s1 in the MAME set.

From the looks of things, the following is true:
crom0 in the DS Multi files is all of the c* files combined into a single file
prom in the DS Multi files is p1 and p2 combined into a single file
vroma0 in the DS Multi files is v1 and v2 combined into a single file

I'll spend some more time on this IF we get past the unibios concern. It should just be a matter of splitting these combined files appropriately, then running them through romident to validate them. Again, if all data is there compared to the MAME set, then I think it's safe to accept the data being run on the DS multi as original arcade data being run on original arcade hardware.

But again, I don't want to spend more time on this if this submission is still going to fail due to unibios or any other concerns. Below is the description of Unibios, as posted by its creator Razoola:

Here you will find all the latest information on the UNIVERSE BIOS for NeoGeo MVS, AES and CD systems. Remember this is not an official SNK Bios, it is a homebrew project aimed at enhancing the experiance when playing on NeoGeo hardware.

This description can be found here: http://unibios.free.fr/

The fact that the bios is clearly stated as being a homebrew I think raises concerns for acceptability, but I'm open to others' interpretations. Truth be told, I run unibios on my Neo Candy 25/4-slot, and have never had any issues in that use case. I had to remove it from my 1-slot and revert to the original bios, however, as it resulted in Neo Turf Masters losing audio if run in attract mode for an extended period of time without starting a game.

Here's the image inline, for easier viewability.

And if that still doesn't work well, you can view or download at my google drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KV0...ew?usp=sharing

Attachment 152712

Man this place is stupid sometimes.

TG allows Everdrives right? This is just an Everdrive for the MVS. If you want to reject this because it's played on a Darksoft cart you may as well go and dispute the thousands of Everdrive records on the scoreboards.

I'm not gonna go dig them up but if you go looking there's already accepted scores on various games here that were played on a NeoSD which is the same thing made by a competing company.