Arcade - Shock Troopers - [Points[Single Player Only]] - 3,816,000

is it is it fair to say these are all issues
1. flash cart -- in my opinion not a real issue both from precedent on this track as well as repeated arguments over and over on this site where at arguemnt end flash always wins
2. controllers -- while this is a little more extreme than most cases, where do you draw the line? i dont think the controller argument wins either
3. modifications to actual board --ok thats fair, i can see that one both ways, we allow repairs, and most repairs arent just snapping something back in position most repairs invovle replacing a component so arguable a modificavion, i think we need to admit if we're gonna allow repairs then we need to be reasonable on mods. still i wont cry if this gets rejected for the mod i do think thats a reasonable concern
4. concern if the boards are original or repro -- we dont allow even perfect reproducictions that you get with fpga, so if proven repros, yeah, sorry its a reject, the only issue with this argument is i dont know how you prove it. so is burden of proof on submitter to prove its not a repro or is burden of proof on disputer? inc ases when we're unsure either way, what wins?

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Originally Posted by Barthax

As for the PS4 controller, the Arcade platform is again _not_mentioned_ in the rules:

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donkey kong, by far the most overly pedantic arcade competitioin here allows buttons using microswitches instead of leaf, and for their advantage but everyone gets same advantage so its fine and not truly and advantage. some may remember the humorous buttongate where this was used as deflection to say if billy cheats everyone cheats as if its the same thing. but sill, yeah, while those dk buttons hardly jjusfiy competing on mame for arcade, i think it shows non original controls on arcade are fine.

@NeoMage I just want to highlight I believe the scoreboard should be accepting of all scores (including TAS & other stuff). However, the scoreboard runs on rules and so those rules need testing from time to time. Your achievement deserves to be on the scoreboard but not necessarily (because of rules) where it currently sits.

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

donkey kong, by far the most overly pedantic arcade competitioin here allows buttons using microswitches instead of leaf, and for their advantage but everyone gets same advantage so its fine and not truly and advantage. some may remember the humorous buttongate where this was used as deflection to say if billy cheats everyone cheats as if its the same thing. but sill, yeah, while those dk buttons hardly jjusfiy competing on mame for arcade, i think it shows non original controls on arcade are fine.

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Yeah, I think this is one of those cases that is strongly likely to get accepted then disputed - only to force TG to decide which way it needs to be. :(

On an unrelated note: whatever your preference for font is, it's white-on-white for me and horrendous to look at in the quotation: another TG fix needed. ;)

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Originally Posted by Barthax

Reviewing the rules as they stand:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/wiki_in...ll-Submissions



OK, so it falls foul of this one. Multiple people are citing the use of flash carts. Arcade games are _not_mentioned_ in the rules:



... so if the flash cart is not permitted for arcade, the submission potentially also fails.



So either TG needs to be petitioned for the rules to accept flash carts on Arcade or a new track needs to be created to permit the flash cart (thus voiding the global rules).

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The thing is, all these things that are exclusive to consoles (flash carts, use of other controllers) likely wouldn't apply to any other arcade systems besides the Neo Geo since its the only arcade system in which games can be switched like a console. And the NeoGeo single slot board is the only one of the two Neo Geo MVS boards thats being consolized, so its also likely the only one to see controllers used like this.

Besides, most arcade controls are tailor-made to the game, they ARE the best controls. In 99% of cases arcade controls will be the best controls because the game was designed around those controls.

If an exception is made it should be for Neo Geo MVS games only.

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Originally Posted by JJT_Defender

PlayStation controller not the original clearly advantage.

Best solution is for @admin staff create a Platform for this track problem solved no more concerns or issues by Twin Galaxies members.

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I do not see how using a PS4 controller having any advantage over a joystick style controller. If it's the standard PS4 controller, then there are no additional features on it. No auto-fire, No turbo settings. People use the keyboard all the time to play arcade games. It's just an input method to play games.

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Originally Posted by comboace

People use the keyboard all the time to play arcade games. It's just an input method to play games.

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Can you give me some examples of that?
On MAME or Emulators yes, but not on actual arcade games.
Especially not when submitting an arcade performance to TG.

It could be argued a PS4 controller would give an advantage in endurance and tiring as ones hands and fingers are placed more naturally with fingers already resting on the buttons on a PS4 controller, while the Neo Geo arcade controls arent really like that, requiring more movement of ones hands. Whether an advantage is had or not would likely vary from game to game. Even a slight advantage in handling or anything else would make all the difference when it comes to competing on some games.

and just to be more clear about the last line on my reply to Barthax when I said "If an exception is made it should be for Neo Geo MVS games only"

meaning IF Twin Galaxies were to ever change the wording in the global rules about Flash carts and non original controllers being used, if an exception is made for this submission and others performed under the same circumstances then the exception should be for Neo Geo MVS games only, and not arcade games in general.

Again, its not likely this would ever be an issue with any other arcade systems as the MVS is the only arcade system which allows one to change out games in a similar manner to a console.

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Originally Posted by Excelliron

and just to be more clear about the last line on my reply to Barthax when I said "If an exception is made it should be for Neo Geo MVS games only"

meaning IF Twin Galaxies were to ever change the wording in the global rules about Flash carts and non original controllers being used, if an exception is made for this submission and others performed under the same circumstances then the exception should be for Neo Geo MVS games only, and not arcade games in general.

Again, its not likely this would ever be an issue with any other arcade systems as the MVS is the only arcade system which allows one to change out games in a similar manner to a console.

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There's a massive number of arcade machines which take carts, cassettes, CDs, etc. What's the logic behind being limited to NeoGeo?

Hello.
Taking advantage of the discussion.
I wonder if it is accepted with the equipment below.

Consolidated MVS Neo Geo with the MV1FZ board.
Unibios 4.0

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Thanks
Fred

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Originally Posted by Barthax

There's a massive number of arcade machines which take carts, cassettes, CDs, etc. What's the logic behind being limited to NeoGeo?

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What arcade machines take carts besides NeoGeo?
I know of arcades that take Cd's and cassettes but none where you can simply put the CD/cassette in a different game and it works.