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10-02-2021 at 01:24 AM
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Contra Arcade Changes

It seems to me the names of the Contra Arcade tracks should be renamed.

The top one should read:

"Points - Single Player - Marathon Settings"

While the bottom one should read:

"Points - Single Player - Tournament Settings"

The wording in the rules description of the top one should also be changed. As it stands both descriptions claim the settings as "Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings" but the word "Tournament" should be changed to "Marathon" in the first track.

I was getting ready to post this in the "Scoreboard Errors/Website Errors" thread but I wanted to check with the community to make sure there isnt something I'm missing, a reason for it being the way it presently is.

Also, this game needs a Speedrun track, if anyone wishes to create such a thing.

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  1. Barthax's Avatar

    The "Marathon settings" and "Tournament settings" have saturated the scoreboard and any single meaning they originally intended has been lost. Also "Marathon" is used to mean different things in different places and so has caused confusion over time. Also the "referee hierarchy" is no longer on hand to sort out arguments of what was intended by the meaning. :(

    Personally, I think it's better to name tracks fitting to the game/rules and the measurement goes in [] braces:

    Bonus Lives Permitted [Points]

    4 Life Maximum [Points]

    They're not exact catchy but they're more factual for when an argument breaks out. :P

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  2. RedDawn's Avatar

    @HAN @InsertCoins do you have an opinion on this, the present state of the wording of the titles/rules, if/how they should be changed/worded?

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  3. InsertCoins's Avatar

    I like Andrew's idea. Clarity is the way go.

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  4. HAN's Avatar

    Yeah, whatever is more clear is best.

    Becuase the extra lives every 70k track isn't as good a track as the bonus at 50k only (because of how much leeching is possible), is there a way to prioritize them or anything? Or was that what naming it "Tournament" settings was supposed to do...?

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  5. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by HAN

    Yeah, whatever is more clear is best.

    Becuase the extra lives every 70k track isn't as good a track as the bonus at 50k only (because of how much leeching is possible), is there a way to prioritize them or anything? Or was that what naming it "Tournament" settings was supposed to do...?

    As far as any specific "Tournament" setting is concerned, I believe you'd have to query the mind of the creator of track to know what it was meant to be at the time of creation.

    I know there were periods when the "Tournament" idea equating to something like "settings for a short game that befits real-life tournament rotations" (my only personal knowledge here would be MAME Decathlons - TG Extreme Settings was a phrase devised for the Advanced MAME Decathlons).

    "Marathon settings" has at least two interpretations that I have witnessed:

    1) Whatever default settings (officially) came out of the factory and was eventually discovered to turn the game into physical endurance. The original track (possibly harking back to 1980s TG) would get the Marathon name at a time when TGTS settings were being created: in the early partnership with Funspot a tourney might have demanded that games be kept short and thus a configuration was agreed upon for the tourney (and becomes "TG Tournament Settings" when entered into the database bumping the other track into "Marathon" from whatever previous incarnation it had).

    2) Idealised settings suited to fall under the "Marathon rules" of endurance.

    They're close but the first is far more nuanced: settings that once might have thought to be competitive but the game was later "broken" to endurance by more skilled players. Such "Marathon" settings may not even be the most conducive settings for an endurance attempt but simply whatever the manufacturer originally thought to be a good money-hungry set.

    Knowing a piece of history: it's possible there were "Marathon" settings conceived of during those early Iron Man days of TG with stitched scores. Again, you'd have to delve into the mindset of whomever created such tracks to know if that was an applicable perspective.

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  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    i looked at this before, and couldnt directly help, but barthax is right and i'd like to piggy back off him.

    consider both centipede and q*berts qubes. Normally tournament is 5 life but exact same setting as marathon and you just keep track of when 5 livves are lost,. with those 2 games though, the only difference is "tournament" is on a harder setting, and for centipede in particular anti-leeching rules kick in that are allowed in marathon due to the grey area nature of the leeching in that game.

    reddawn is also correct though that the current titles are no good. "point" and "points single player" isnt much of a distinguishment -- especially when they're both for single player. naming one single player is heavily misleading implying the other is multi player.

    i also like barthax initial name suggestion with the same criticism/benefits -- its ugly, but is easy to understand and more importantly its correct.

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  7. Barthax's Avatar

    Just to expand something based on my own experiences as a Referee. The old TG hierarchy was typical in that there was always "someone else" that had the knowledge or decision-making capability. The "official hierarchy" circa 2004 when I became ref was Board of Directors > Chief Referee > Senior Referees > Referee and somewhere around Senior Referee there were branches to specialities. Specialities were dual-hatted referees (a speciality ref didn't have to be a main ref but more often was) like those with responsibility over a specific platform - the Platform Editors - and genre-specifics referees like the Morrow brothers being responsible for all Vs. Fighters (vague memory, can't remember the specific title). The player would query a Referee who should (hierarchy was loose in practice because we were all volunteers!) go through a Senior Ref to get answers for stuff. In turn the Senior Ref should query the specialist (if existing/known) before going to the Chief. Only the Chief talked to the Board & only results came out of those conversations (not nuances or debates). Holidays & illnesses happened & referees would cover for each other: @RaGeNyC & I would occasionally pass emulation adjudication responsibilities to each other (C64 was his primarily pool of incoming subs and ZX Spectrum mine), so there was potential fluidity among the refs at any given time.

    "Tournament" to a Vs. Fighter genre might mean something very different from "Tournament" to the Platform Editor of the NES. So it was very possible to receive different (perspectively correct) answers to the same question depending on who was asked: and that information goes into the hierarchy and gets banded about potentially misrepresented. Anyone that's been inside big business will likely have seen this: hierarchy makes things work at scale but misinformation rots it from the inside out. For a long time I, as Referee and then Senior Referee, asserted that "TGTS" was 3 lives regardless of game unless explicitly stated in rules (and many of the rules are explicit about the number of lives so there was little evidence to correct me). So, misinformation definitely existed inside TG (and I was the source of at least one piece!). By 2008 there were three different methods of performing timing on manually-timed submissions, for example - I knew of two of them back in 2008 & a third came to light in discussions with RTM around 2016.

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    Updated 10-14-2021 at 05:56 AM by Barthax
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