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redelf
04-06-2021 at 05:30 PM
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Team games and when score should be taken.

There has been a big divide between players on this subject and we need to get a decision and global rule in place soon.

There are a lot of submissions in the que that are pending do to this issue and I believe it is leaving a sour taste in many of mouths, causing some to just avoid the mame track as a whole.

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  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    i assume you talking about already existing tracks? i would hope for future tracks we can just try as a community to remind people to be explicit either way.

    for older tracks, i have my opinions, however, i'll put my global preference aside for whatever the historic precedence on a track was

  2. redelf's Avatar

    My stance on the issue is that a time and point in the game should be clarified and ruled as the end of the game. That time is when one of the players loses their last life. At this time the scores of both players are taken and the total is then computed and submitted.

    I know of no sport in the world that would allow continuation of the game or event if one of the team members is no longer able to continue. Tennis, Volleyball, Table Tennis, Darts, Bowling, the list goes on and on.

    Allowing the game to continue with just 1 player is not a team game, their is no "I" in team. All this does is allow 1 person to play with anyone else and have them die off and then play the rest of the game alone with no "team" member.

    I saw somewhere where someone made a scoring percentage formula that would allow for the continuation of the now individual remaining team member to play on and then have the score calculated according to the formula. This formula rewarded team play and penalized the team the further the scoring difference was between the team players.

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  3. redelf's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    i assume you talking about already existing tracks? i would hope for future tracks we can just try as a community to remind people to be explicit either way.

    for older tracks, i have my opinions, however, i'll put my global preference aside for whatever the historic precedence on a track was

    Yes I'm talking about all 2 player tracks whether they are existing or new tracks. Yeah it's an issue with some existing tracks but we do not know how they obtained those scores and therefore are just going to be grandfathered in. Again in the future when we can toggle TGSAP and legacy scores you can include or exclude those scores.

  4. Barra's Avatar

    Generally speaking, as soon as it becomes a 1 player game.

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  5. SGO316's Avatar


    HI ! I VOTE FOR TAKING THE SCORE WHEN THE GAME ENDS, (all players die or game end it´s gameplay)


    there is a SPORT called DODGEBALL that allow team members to continue playing until no one of the team left.

    videogames that the 2 or more players start at same time are OK , but the game REALLY ends when the two players die or game ends.

    is very confussing taking the score of the two players when one of them die and that will make more conffusions.


    by the way:

    when two player die and game ends, the highscore table is show. so no one can make a dispute about the score.

    (we have a HIGHSCORE TABLE TO CHECK)

    in the case we take the score when one of the players die, is very very difficult, because for example in a beat em up, one player die, the other continue making points..the dead player start blinking in the dead "animation" and at what time we should take score? when hit of enemy that provoque death? when dead player stop blinking/dead animation ends ?

    (NO have a HIGHSCORE TABLE to CHECK or is not showing the score at the moment that one of the players die)

    i think we should continue as we have done until now.

    also because THE MERE VIDEOGAMES ARE THE ONES THAT SHOWS THE SCORE OR HIGHSSCORE TABLE when all players die or game ends.




  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    the sports analogy doesnt convince me cause this isnt those sports, further alot of other sports have alternates that can jump in. trying to figure out what the rules was -- not what we might want it to be -- is my biggest hang up.

    you've been around for a while. your doubles, do you recall the rule on the scores you've done when you did them?

  7. redelf's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    the sports analogy doesnt convince me cause this isnt those sports, further alot of other sports have alternates that can jump in. trying to figure out what the rules was -- not what we might want it to be -- is my biggest hang up.

    you've been around for a while. your doubles, do you recall the rule on the scores you've done when you did them?

    Every event I've ever been involved in, all games end as soon as one player runs out of lives. We already know who the best players are at the game in question, we want to find out which team is best at the game.

  8. SGO316's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    the sports analogy doesnt convince me cause this isnt those sports, further alot of other sports have alternates that can jump in. trying to figure out what the rules was -- not what we might want it to be -- is my biggest hang up.

    you've been around for a while. your doubles, do you recall the rule on the scores you've done when you did them?


    yes, in all 2 player team record that i have, the score was taken when game ends or the 2 players die.

  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by redelf


    Every event I've ever been involved in, all games end as soon as one player runs out of lives. We already know who the best players are at the game in question, we want to find out which team is best at the game.


    were these events fed into tg scores? since we're talking about tg tracks i'm specifically asking about scores you had that made their way to tg leaderboards, not tournaments that may not have made their way to tg tracks

  10. wwdkong's Avatar

    I would root for having tracks for each rule set, as I can see validity to each. Staying out of the conversation as to which takes priority.

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  11. SGO316's Avatar

    ah ! ALSO in TG tracks says "2 PLAYERS TEAM"

    meanings is a team who score should be taken as one, summing the total score of the players when all of them die

  12. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I know for a fact that if I played 2 players on TMNT 2: The Arcade Game on the NES with my 7 year old and told him to stay away as best as possible, we could probably beat the game. What if I let him use one of my lives to come back, that just puts the pressure on me not to die since I'm helping keep him alive. I'm getting all the kills, he is just trying to survive. Is that any different than another player dying off and me continuing? I'm still doing all the work, he is just there. Lots of questions could be asked about this.

    I think that if the game rules doesn't have it specifically written when the game ends, it doesn't end until both players are dead. I can't remember what game it was, but if one player dies and the other makes it to the next check point the other player gets to come back (Halo maybe?). Is that a Game Over? Since the game allows you to bring them back naturally through game play is it allowed to keep playing?

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    Updated 04-06-2021 at 06:58 PM by thegamer1185
  13. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Just for reference, here was the post about the formula that could be applied. In writing it, I intended it to be an additional stat that could be used to rank team scores, not necessarily a global tracking:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/blackflag82/wall/8874/team-rank-a-new-way-to-score-team-efforts


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  14. Blackflag82's Avatar

    So in the case of Kyle's example above, the Team Rank stat formula would actually reflect better that this was how the game was played...two players who get through half the game with relatively close scores but a fair amount lower total score could end up higher on scoreboard than Kyle and his son in his example.

    Likesthegamer1185 liked this post
    Updated 04-08-2021 at 09:05 AM by Blackflag82
  15. SGO316's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185

    I think that if the game rules doesn't have it specifically written when the game ends, it doesn't end until both players are dead.


    Exactly ! if the game rules not specifically says when score has to be taken, the GAME ENDS when all players die. and the HIGHSCORE table is shown


  16. EVN's Avatar

    As with all these debates. Bad rules lead to arguments about interperetation.


    The track rules should state how the game score is to be recorded. Or the global rules should state how scores should be recorded in the absence of a specific track rule.

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