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05-17-2018 at 05:47 PM
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Some thoughts from the wandering gamer...

Somehow I wound up back full-time on the 2600 mostly, for now, at least.

The current interest is digging for games that haven't been played much but are tracked, and untracked games that I happen to stumble on searching around, I've found several of both recently.

I ran into this problem before when playing VCS...

There are many games tracked for NTSC variation(actually, usually NTSC variation only), where the original game was released as PAL only.
There are conversion roms of these games, which play in NTSC format, dating back to when the original scores were put on these games.
I feel very strongly that the conversion roms were how the scores were accomplished, and that they are "valid" scores, but they do have some backlash from the community that PAL only releases should be tracked PAL only.
My biggest defense for the conversion roms are the Atari 5200 games that have been ported from Atari computers, 400/800, tracked intentionally as conversions, there is no other way for them to be available on the 5200.

The easiest solution is to add PAL tracks to these games, and accept the NTSC scores as being performed on conversions, possibly even noted in the track name.
If not, the scores on the games are basically locked up, as they cannot be played/accepted by the current TG community standards.

There are many of these, many of them obscure. Will take research to straighten out.
As much work as has been done already, there is still a LOT of straightening out to do.

Left-Field suggestion...

Pay site-users in certificates for x amount of work/research on straightening out their particular specialty system, I bet it gets productive then...


I'd likely be too lazy to help, not looking for personal profit, but it would help a seemingly impossible task become possible, users would really help out to have a voice/"protect the integrity" of their systems, and...get certificates.
Just an idea, ya'll owe Al about ten by now.
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  1. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar
    Roger - you’re reading my mind. Not with the 2600 but for me it’s the NES. Ever since I got my EverDrive N8 I’ve been playing lots and lots of games that are not tracked here at TG because they’re either prototypes, non-releases, or otherwise not regarded as official releases.

    I have trouble being confident that I could add tracks to TG that would account for these ROMs. As much as these “new” games are perfectly valid for competition (good gameplay and valid scoring methods) I’m just not sure that the NTSC and PAL categories properly capture the competition I wish to encourage.

    I don't have a solution. I’m just with you on this.
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  2. Barthax's Avatar
    TG has a rich history of obscure titles or rare releases. Do not let that stop you!

    For queries over NTSC submissions on seemingly PAL-only titles, the answer could be in the old Original/EMU split project - which also split NTSC/PAL submissions: . From the public perception, a lot of that conversation is not available as it was on the internal forums back in the day.

    Anyone that complains about EMU prefix look deeper - by 2006 there were already emulated submissions (and I happen to know they go back to 2002 and earlier). Anyone that complains about Everdrive, note that Cuttle Cart was regularly used by some gamers back then also. Neither are a "new thing".

    [Edit:] Ooo, also confirmation from RTM (then Cheif Referee - the only "guest" account on the forum when his account was "accidentally" deleted after his departure): scores with a "[...] verification date of 6/11/04 (the import date) or prior." - the date the majority older scores were imported into the new (2004) database.
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    Updated 05-17-2018 at 11:59 PM by Barthax
  3. Barthax's Avatar
    Hehe, you made me look:

    Official split terminology:

    "As a little dip into the technological explanation: where the under-lying B&W technology is the same, B&W RS170(A) derivatives will be tracked the same (note that all non-HDTV colour variations are based on one of two B&W variations). Thus the original NTSC @ 59.97Hz (the original colour add-on to the B&W RS170(A) specification) will be tracked alongside PAL-M and PAL-60 as the only difference between those technologies is the colour encoding and their respective broadcast (UHF/VHF) frequencies (which are only relevant to broadcasting). All other PAL types (and there are plenty of others based on the B&W CCIR specification) are tracked together & are seperately tracked from NTSC. Additionally, SECAM (also based on the B&W CCIR specification) is also tracked seperately from NTSC & PAL due to significant differences between the PAL and SECAM modifications to the CCIR specification."

    So, if you play a game on NTSC, PAL-M or PAL-60, it is tracked as "NTSC" - it has been this way since the "great split of 2006". If you play other PAL systems (not PAL-M/PAL-60) it gets tracked as "PAL". Confusing? Well, it was from the start. ;) Before the split, only MAME was tracked separately... Otherwise everything (including emulation) was merged.
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    Updated 05-18-2018 at 12:10 AM by Barthax
  4. Rogerpoco's Avatar
    Very confusing, lol, took a couple reads to understand!

    I'm OK either way on being allowed to play the conversions, would rather be allowed to play them, but if not, the score tracks should be taken down.

    Not meaning to cause waves, just out exploring the unknown-sometimes you bring back treasure, sometimes you bring back malaria...
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  5. Snowflake's Avatar
    it does have some nuissance that the sort of things you're talking about make console level esi a little less meaningful since you're now getting point for things that are really other console skills. even still, i cant object since the moment you accept homebrews you open the door to everything else as well. if instead of a conversion some homebrew just coded the exact same game by hand would it suddenly be more acceptable simply because its now tehcnially a homebrew and not a conversion? that doesnt seem right. i guess it might be nice to have some sort of split betwen official release and everything else, but even that gets dicey when you have legitmate releases from back in the day that never got official approval. Those realy arent "homebrews" but they'ren otficial either. I really think we just have to accept it al
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  6. Rogerpoco's Avatar
    I'm likely to test the waters with a conversion or two soon, there are a few good games-I hate to admit I had to check, wasn't sure, but the Dragon Defender did go through, so the precedent is there.

    Mostly don't want to hurt a couple friends feelings over the issue but I'm willing to pay most of the points to start derivative PAL tracks on any of the conversions, that just seems like the best way.

    Thanks for the input everyone!
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