RTM's Feed

RTM
06-07-2019 at 09:55 PM
53 Comments
Rate this Entry

What are the Arcade Records that "May Never be Broken"...Now ?

Over the years this topic has been discussed and debated extensively. I remember a few years back discussing five TG records that may stand the test of time and that list has since changed.

I also read on the IVGHOF site relating to the list of 2017 nominees discussing Mike Klug's "Pole Position" arcade record as being one of six "records that may never be broken", expressed in quotes, but I can't seem to find any such list discussed anywhere. Does anyone know where ?

SO, I though I'd revisit the topic.

Years back I included in my "short list" the following....

-> "Pole Position" (arcade) by Mike Klug

-> "Dragster" (Atari 2600) by Todd Rogers (since debunked)

-> "Alien Syndrome" (arcade) by Donn Nauert

-> "Paperboy" (grand slam) by Phill Britt (since debunked though not yet removed from the TG database unless I am mistaken)

I might have also included "Kaboom" (Atari 2600) game "A" of 960,001 also by Todd (and also since debunked)

Can't remember the rest, but that short list was across all platforms. And some records have since either been beaten or debunked. So in the here and now, here is my personal "Five (5) Arcade Records that May Never be Beaten" in no particular order...

(1) "Pole Position" by Mike Klug - a lot of recent chatter about this record as well as attempts by several top modern players, but no joy thus far

(2) "Q*Bert" (marathon) by George Luetz - one of the visually toughest marathon challenges of all time, practically hypnotizing at times, this 84 hour ultra marathon may be something that even George won't want to "re-game"

(3) "Cheyenne" by Donn Nauert - Donn's pretty much retired...can't say for sure whether he so much gave an interview in the past 10 years let alone submitted a score, but this one is his crowning achievement

(4) - "Missile Command" (TGTS) by Tony Temple - for starters, I will not even entertain the "fast vs slow" discussion...Tony is The Man at this title. His score is so high he actually looped the 0x stages. It was a quantum leap over his second highest record.

(5) - "Carnival" by Fred Pastore - not only is his score sitting pretty with no close contenders, it's not even his best score. For those whose memories so not date back to 1999, Bill Mitchell (yes, that Bill Mitchell) took out a special "bounty list" and offered $1,000 if any record from that list could be broken. One of the very few people that submitted a score to Bill was Fred Pastore and it was on this title, with a score of 432,xxx points, that would have been the new world record for TG. Unfortunately that "bounty" was never paid out and the tape was never submitted for verification afterwards.

Honorable Mention would be the "Rally X" score which, although beaten on the MARP leaderboard via MAME, is now an unbeaten arcade record for the past 37 years.

What are your top five unbreakable arcade records ?

Robert





ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
Comments
  1. RTM's Avatar

    Should have stated above but there does not seem to be an "Edit" button now for some reasons, but the "Alien Syndrome" record I believe has since been beaten...I mentioned that some of my original short list were either beaten or debunked and that was one of them.

    How odd...I seem to be able to edit my comment but not the original wall post itself even though I am the author to both. Weird...and dumb.

    Anyway, caught another typo that I made...when I discussed people whose memories do not date back to 1999 I typed "...so not date back...". My bad :(

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesHAN, JJT_Defender liked this post
    Updated 06-07-2019 at 10:02 PM by RTM
  2. Pat Larocque's Avatar

    If I'm not mistaken, your Star Wars Arcade record has well beyond stood the test of time RTM. In my opinion it will be a long time before it's broken (if ever)!!

    LikesJJT_Defender liked this post
  3. RTM's Avatar

    Hi Pat...I left that one off for good reason, by all rights it SHOULD have been broken back in 2005 !! Brandon had the bad luck of technical difficulties 54 hours into the game, plus (avoidable) severely cut down on his sugar intake in the two days beforehand thus experienced hallucinations. Even so, he came within 97.5% of my record so it is definitely "beatable".

    LikesPat Larocque, JJT_Defender liked this post
  4. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    I'm open for correction, as I am pretty oblivious to the scene and it's history, but I don't think anyone besides Bryan Wagner has broken the killscreen on Burgertime(in an actual game, I think J.D. may have accomplished it, but I think was savestate practice), and I think mebbe that no one else ever will.

    My l-5 patterns left a few points on the table, but my MAME score is pretty close to all the points you can get before the killscreen.


    Billy's arcade score, BTW,(which was removed), was a tad higher than mine, and I thought for a while that it was in a grey area, too many points w/o beating the k/s, not enough if he did, but my guess now is that his score actually is probably the max available points before the k/s.

    Point being, it really IS a killscreen, tho it has been beaten-it was beaten by probably the only person that could.

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesRagequit, JJT_Defender liked this post
    Updated 06-08-2019 at 09:10 AM by Rogerpoco
  5. YesAffinity's Avatar

    EVN - Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo - beat a long-standing record that was previously thought to be unbeatable, and frankly those of us who cared were long scratching our heads as to how it was done. The technique that EVN mastered was out there on MARP MAME videos, albeit at a "lower" difficulty level - the default game board difficulty of level 4 (out of 8). Won't get into the debate about SSF2T difficulty, which seems to be about the same from 1-8...but there is some difference, imho, although it's a damn difficult AI no matter what it's set at...but level 8 is stupidly responsive and counter-ready.

    Now that we have video of the technique being applied at maximum difficulty, sadly the collective of enthusiasts pursuing Street Fighter world records of any facet and iteration from the chronology is dwindling. (I hope that run-on sentence/idea makes sense...basically, unfortunately the new record was set and there's not many/anybody that are going to challenge it).

    A truly monumental accomplishment: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/201449

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesHAN, JJT_Defender liked this post
  6. Kelly Kerr's Avatar

    I love Carnival. I would like to be a contender on that game but the arcade I frequent took it off the floor. I think someone bought it. I remember when I was in middle school, the thing to do was go to the skate rink on fridays. They had several games one of them being Carnival. I spent more time playing the arcade games than I did skating. I even turned down a couples only skate because my brother and I were kicking ass at Smash TV and didn't want to be bothered. On another particular night, I was playing Carnival and having the game of a lifetime only to have ruined by some dumbass that went behind the machine and tripped the cord unplugging it. I just asked my brother if he has any recollection of what the score was and he thinks it was well over 100k. So, if the 13 year old me could be summoned to take on that score, I might be able to come close. I'm not as nimble. Hopefully another machine will turn up in my area.

    I have a video of me playing Carnival with a 30k score but I did not get a shot of the inside so I have not submitted. :(

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesJJT_Defender liked this post
  7. Pearl2hu's Avatar

    1942 by 仲原 善信 - 14,968,060

    Armed Police Batrider (Advanced) by TTH - 29,737,030

    Mahou Daisakusen by Furuenmo - 4,036,760

    Raiden II by AIN - 101,356,690

    Donpachi by SOF-WTN - 92,079,420


    My 5 picks for runs that will most likely never be topped

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesHAN, EVN, JJT_Defender liked this post
  8. HAN's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM

    Should have stated above but there does not seem to be an "Edit" button now for some reasons, but the "Alien Syndrome" record I believe has since been beaten...I mentioned that some of my original short list were either beaten or debunked and that was one of them.

    How odd...I seem to be able to edit my comment but not the original wall post itself even though I am the author to both. Weird...and dumb.

    Anyway, caught another typo that I made...when I discussed people whose memories do not date back to 1999 I typed "...so not date back...". My bad :(


    Yes, that was me who beat the Alien Syndrome score from Donn Nauert set in 1988. :)

    ThanksRTM, JJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesEmayl, EVN, RTM, JJT_Defender liked this post
  9. Barra's Avatar

    Hi Robert

    I've got some questions about this one:

    (3) "Cheyenne" by Donn Nauert - Donn's pretty much retired...can't say for sure whether he so much gave an interview in the past 10 years let alone submitted a score, but this one is his crowning achievement

    The score listed on the scoreboard is 319,209,350, however looking on MARP the 1st place score set in 1999 by "German Krol" is 99,999,999 in which he also states is a maxout of this title

    I've taken the time to play this score back and can indeed confirm the game does not score past 99,999,999

    Once you "cash in your gold", it does show the calculation and these could have been added together with the player's current score, however since the game doesn't track this I'd have thought it would not be an acceptable way to determine the final score (in addition this calculation may indeed maxout at some point too but no proof on that thus far)

    Here's a recording of the end of "German Krol's" game from MARP
    https://youtu.be/mq6eCUPUUKc


    Curious as to your thoughts on this one. Scoring rate is not a problem in this case as the gold bonus increases exponentially, unless the level counter maxes out at some point (no indication that this would happen)

    ThanksThe Evener, JJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesJJT_Defender liked this post
    Updated 01-05-2020 at 02:12 AM by Barra
  10. RTM's Avatar

    HI Andrew:

    This is a score from the O L D days of TG taken from a high-profile competition. I was not a TG staffer back in that era and Walter was the referee-in-charge of that event.

    Cheyene record was set at the 1985 Video Game Masters Tournament - http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/players/hof/index.htm

    Alpiger's site indicates (above) that the record was from 1985...unfortunately I don't have a copy of the 1985 masters tournament rules but the 1984 rules are in the link below, though sadly "Cheyenne" is not among them - http://www.videoparadise-sanjose.com/1984vgmt-rules.htm

    You might want to direct an inquiry to Mark since he was at that very event, I think...he might remember some details. Otherwise ask Walter directly...unsure of his E-MAIL address but he DOES have a Facebook page (possibly 2).

    I cannot even speculate what might have happened during that event to explain this score...sorry, wish I could be of more help but the knowledge pre-dates me.


    edit: ADDL - I'll send an E-MAIL to Darren Harris as he also might have some knowledge of that event


    ThanksBarra, JJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesJJT_Defender liked this post
    Updated 01-05-2020 at 07:19 AM by RTM (Added new paragraph)
  11. RTM's Avatar

    If I remember correctly, Walter discusses the score/achievement in his first TG Book of Records. I no longer have a copy so if anyone does I recommend searching for it to see if anything written might be useful.

    One interesting historical item of note...at the time of the release of the first TG Book of Records, there were only three (3) arcade world records in excess of the 300 million mark...Donn's "Cheyenne" score of 319M, Tim's "Nibbler" score of 1 billion+, and my own "Star Wars" score of 300M. There were, of course, other "Nibbler" scores" in excess of 300M, but in terms of TG WR's in excess of 300M it was just those three at that point in time.

    ThanksBarra, JJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesJJT_Defender liked this post
  12. The Evener's Avatar

    RTM, to revisit Barra's question more generally - are you aware of an instance where TG recognized a score that included points manually added by the player to a max-out? More specifically in reference to the tournament rules, it seems doubtful that the rule set for this title would have any language about manually adding points since I can't foresee how such an outcome might have been anticipated to warrant such language, setting aside perhaps the more central question of adding points manually to a game event where the score is frozen (maxed).

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesBarra, JJT_Defender liked this post
  13. Barra's Avatar

    Thanks for info Robert.

    Hopefully Darren gets back to you with some relevant information

    After rethinking this one I do believe the score happened and that the players gold multiplication was added to the players current score. However the game still maxes out so I dont necessarily agree with that decision.

    Having said that I dont think this is worthy enough to start a dispute.

    A seemingly unique case for sure!

  14. The Evener's Avatar

    I just re-read the rules for this track, it states:

    Bonus Lives are awarded after the 2nd, 5th, 9th & 14th screen.
    Special Rules: Since the game DOES roll after 100,000,000 a referee must be present to verify the first roll-over and keep a running log of the gold accumalated. Continues are NOT permitted!

    It appears that the claim of a roll over as opposed to a max-out is at conflict here, but the rule does suggest manual tracking of the score, which is open to all competitors.

    ThanksBarra thanked this post
    LikesBarra liked this post
  15. Barra's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    I just re-read the rules for this track, it states:

    Bonus Lives are awarded after the 2nd, 5th, 9th & 14th screen.
    Special Rules: Since the game DOES roll after 100,000,000 a referee must be present to verify the first roll-over and keep a running log of the gold accumalated. Continues are NOT permitted!

    It appears that the claim of a roll over as opposed to a max-out is at conflict here, but the rule does suggest manual tracking of the score, which is open to all competitors.

    Thanks I must have somehow skimmed over the rules for the arcade track.

    Definitely some strange wording there and given that the game doesnt roll over you have to wonder if this was based on assumption alone. A snapshot of the final gold is for sure the only way this score could have been verified even though afterwards the game would have displayed 99,999,999 in the high score table

  16. lexmark's Avatar

    " Bill Mitchell (yes, that Bill Mitchell) took out a special "bounty list" and offered $1,000 if any record from that list could be broken. One of the very few people that submitted a score to Bill was Fred Pastore and it was on this title, with a score of 432,xxx points, that would have been the new world record for TG. Unfortunately that "bounty" was never paid out and the tape was never submitted for verification afterwards. "


    Hi Robert @RTM , any idea why the bounty was never paid out?


    john

    .



    LikesThe Evener, Snowflake liked this post
  17. The Evener's Avatar

    Donn’s world record wasn't achieved during the 1985 North American Video Game Challenge (NAVGC). At the challenge event held the weekend of January 12 - 13, Donn put up a then world record of 86,610,600. You'll note from the TG track that there's a number of submissions from that date, 1985-01-12. Donn's record of 319,209,350 was achieved two weeks later on January 27. Mark Alpiger mentions his NAVGC score was later "put to shame" with his 300+ million performance, but he only saw Donn play at the NAVGC where Donn reached 86 million.

    http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/contests/Jan1985/

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/cheyenne/arcade/points/

    Apparently Donn put up the world record at the Video Game Masters Tournament, held (according to Wikipedia) June 28 - June 30, 1985 in 16 different arcades across North America, although his record is actually credited as occurring a day earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Game_Masters_Tournament

    I came across a pdf of the 1986 Video Game Masters Tournament Official Games Manual scanned and uploaded by TG member Hattg, which lists 125 arcade titles for competition and their attendant settings. Surpassing the cited "threshold score" would have the player included in the 1987 Guinness Book of World Records. The entry for Cheyenne states "since the scoring mechanism turns over at 100,000,000 points, it is necessary to keep a running log of the bonus gold which the player is accumulating. This should be noted frequently." Earlier in the manual it states "in some games the score will turned over (rolled back to zero). The "site" director must witness and mark every "rollover" to calculate the final score."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140123195127/http://mysite.verizon.net:80/hattg/pics/videogame/1986_VGM_TOGM.pdf

    The circumstances of Cheyenne are still peculiar - one can track gold but you're basically playing just for gold after the max-out since the rule makes no mention of tracking "in-game" point accruals from shooting the bad guys, for example - although trying to track such a thing would be basically impossible to do.

    LikesBarra liked this post
    Updated 01-07-2020 at 02:33 PM by The Evener
  18. RTM's Avatar

    I heard back from Mark Longridge, Dwayne Richard and Darren Harris...if anyone would know for sure they would.

    Darren is going to try to contact Donn himself based on his last contact info. But in the interim, here's what is believed so far...

    -> Mark believes that the bonus roll-over was somehow calculated and watched by those present which would explain the score in excess of 99.9M

    -> Dwayne believes that the score was not achieved at the 1985 Masters but instead was done at the Iron Man event

    -> Darren believes that the score was done at the same tourney where Roy made his MC claims, which would bolster Dwayne's statement, but he was not there to witness Donn's performance

    So I think what happened might have been an on-the-spot decision made by Walter at the event. Mark said he would try to find any confirmation of the ruling and would let me know.

    Walter would hopefully remember if somehow he were able to be contacted, so if anyone has the means on Facebook to send him a message please do so.

    Now, as far as consistency goes, this decision is unique, if that's the way it went down, but then again how many games with score freezes have a bonus potential which is so vast that it literally can lead to the tripling of the max visible score ? My guess is none. Even "Crossbow", "Crackshot" and "Chiller", all from Exidy, do not the capacity to do so to that extent. So if this were the decision made, it would make sense under the unique set of circumstances to allow for this...however it was never officially documented anywhere that I am aware of, so I anxiously await Mark's continued research.

    For the time being all of the above is anecdotal until further confirmation is made.

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesBarra, JJT_Defender liked this post
  19. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener
    RTM, to revisit Barra's question more generally - are you aware of an instance where TG recognized a score that included points manually added by the player to a max-out? More specifically in reference to the tournament rules, it seems doubtful that the rule set for this title would have any language about manually adding points since I can't foresee how such an outcome might have been anticipated to warrant such language, setting aside perhaps the more central question of adding points manually to a game event where the score is frozen (maxed



    RTM REPLY - this decision logically was made before the printing of the event rules manual but I'm unsure if it already existed within the printing of the 1985 manual since I don't have that one (I donated my 1984 or 1986 manual to ACAM years back and never had the other two)

    I have to imagine that Walter had some say into this ruling and likely that was based on feedback from the expert players like Donn...and likely only Donn since no one else back then ever scored that high on the title.

    I cannot readily think of any other game title where such a substantial roll-over bonus is calculated after a title maxes out BUT I can think of one which, if the score DID max out at 9.999M that a similar ruling would be in effect.

    In the event that "Domino Man" were to behave accordingly then surely it would make sense to allow for this...if it was indeed able to calculate what the final score WOULD have been...due to the nature of that title and the potential for an infinite bonus (to the maximum of what that title allows for, of course).

    But beyond that, I know that no such provision was made for any other title with a maxed out score such as "Dig Dug II", "Exed Exes" the "Lode Runner" series, "Green Beret", "Karnov", "Circus Charlie" and also console titles such as many of the Activision titles.

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesBarra, The Evener, JJT_Defender liked this post
  20. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark

    " Bill Mitchell (yes, that Bill Mitchell) took out a special "bounty list" and offered $1,000 if any record from that list could be broken. One of the very few people that submitted a score to Bill was Fred Pastore and it was on this title, with a score of 432,xxx points, that would have been the new world record for TG. Unfortunately that "bounty" was never paid out and the tape was never submitted for verification afterwards. "

    Hi Robert @RTM , any idea why the bounty was never paid out?

    john



    RTM REPLY - John, I cannot remember the precise circumstances but Fred did tell me years back that it was not paid out and he had since opted not to pursue the matter further.

    What I DO remember is at either the 2000 or 2001 ACAM event, Fred treated a bunch of us to Chinese food at a nearby Chinese restaurant next to Shaws (the one that none of us will ever eat at again, I should mention, based on a subsequent anecdote that Jason Cram provided about the place)

    Anyway, Fred treated because he was thrilled at having won the "bounty" from Bill. Dwayne was at the time the only other claimant from that 1999 listing and he earned it for "Tuttankham" (or however that was spelled).

    ThanksJJT_Defender thanked this post
    LikesBarra, JJT_Defender liked this post
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Join us