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RTM
06-11-2019 at 09:19 PM
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Longing for the Original Franchise Titles' "Feel"

I was reading a CNN.com article on the latest "Zelda" sequel and while it does look nice and all, I do long for the days of the freshness and expanse of the original offerings for the franchise, the classic NES original and then the SNES "A Link to the Past", and I'll make an exception for "Ocarina of Time" as that was awesome.

Same for classic "Metroid" and "Super Metroid", "Castlevania I & II" and "Symphony of the Night". All classics, all maintaining the spirit of the original.

I wish instead of these cartoonish and near-movie-like 3-D offerings the devs go back to the original drawing board and create a clever, intricate and MASSIVELY scaled adventure in the same 2-D format of the original classic. I can't be the only gamer who feels that the original formats were far more enjoyable than their modern-era sequel titles.

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  1. Barthax's Avatar

    What's always struck me strange about the console market is that no matter what the "must have" small set of titles there are on the "current" consoles, soon after any hit there are masses of these games available for PC (historically Amiga/ST). They're not the original title on the console, obviously, but there's innovation beyond the limited offerings of consoles not just in the variety of game play but because they arrive on unbounded media (multiple floppies in the old days). These days with Steam, there are newer devs re-creating their nostalgia in new games - often at a fraction of the price for hunting down these supposed classics.

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  2. Pat Larocque's Avatar

    Thank you for pointing this out! I have felt this way for a long time and have even completely lost interest in any future releases from certain titles because of this very reason. Although I understand the need by these companies to 'keep up with the times' and to always 'bring something new to the table' so to speak, I truly believe a lot of them are missing the mark by far. Instead of trying to 're-brand' or 're-fresh' these characters and franchises constantly they should focus on what initially made these characters and games so popular and loved and build off of that instead of just trying to make everything 'look prettier' to cash in on an established namesake.

    The best example of this I can give is watching my own 10 year old son rush to his original NES and Atari 2600 instead of his newer consoles like his Wii U or 3ds etc. (even though he has much of the same franchise titles on the various systems) especially with his various Mario titles. When he is asked about this, he always gives the same answer...."Because they are more fun!!" and when I ask him why they are 'more fun' he always replies "They are easier to play but harder to beat and I want to play a game, not watch a movie Dad!!"

    I fully agree with you in this and that I personally, would rather see and play a sequel to Zelda or Castlevania in the same look and feel of the originals with an obscene amount of extra levels instead of a 'remake' with the newest visual effects etc. This also seems to be the new trend not just with video games, but also in the movie and music industries lately as well.....'Let's just take the easy way out and 'remake' this"...."if it's got better graphics and fx then it'll automatically much better!!"....unfortunately this is the mentality of a lot of the 'higher ups' of these companies have and what ultimately happens when you are more focused on the 'bottom line'. Everything else, including quality, comes second to the profits!

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  3. GibGirl's Avatar

    ...so you want to capture the "freshness" of the original Zelda by getting a game that matches the style of a 25-year old game that has been heavily used by other games for all that time, instead of something that is actually new to the series? You don't think the huge world in Breath of the Wild matches up to the "expanse" of a 16x8 overworld with dungeons that together all fit into a 16x16 grid?

    Have you actually PLAYED any of these new games that you lament as being not nearly as good as the originals? Also, have you looked into any of the more recent games that fit into those styles with their own modern twists? For example, the Binding of Isaac as a rogue-lite take on the original Legend of Zelda dungeons. All the Metroidvania games that have shown up over the recent years, such as Shadow Complex, or Axiom Verge? Or tough-but-fair 2D platformers like Celeste?

    Remember that doing something truly *new* is difficult to do. And for all these series that are long-lasting now because they broke new ground, there are many, many more that fell by the wayside. Some were a single game that didn't go anywhere. Others failed to innovate, sticking to the "tried and true" that got them started, and *died off*. Resident Evil completely reinvented the series with RE4 because sticking to the same things was causing sales to fall. We remember the successes fondly, and long for that feeling of something exiting and new. We don't remember the failures as much, and we don't account for our own changes in who we are as our variety of experiences grow.

    But we can find some of those same feelings of newness and excitement, but it requires *actively trying new things*. You'll never get that feeling of the original Zelda again with a game anything like that, even if you think it's what you want. But you can find it in new game experiences if you keep trying them.

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  4. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl

    ...so you want to capture the "freshness" of the original Zelda by getting a game that matches the style of a 25-year old game that has been heavily used by other games for all that time, instead of something that is actually new to the series? You don't think the huge world in Breath of the Wild matches up to the "expanse" of a 16x8 overworld with dungeons that together all fit into a 16x16 grid?

    Have you actually PLAYED any of these new games that you lament as being not nearly as good as the originals? Also, have you looked into any of the more recent games that fit into those styles with their own modern twists? For example, the Binding of Isaac as a rogue-lite take on the original Legend of Zelda dungeons. All the Metroidvania games that have shown up over the recent years, such as Shadow Complex, or Axiom Verge? Or tough-but-fair 2D platformers like Celeste?

    Remember that doing something truly *new* is difficult to do. And for all these series that are long-lasting now because they broke new ground, there are many, many more that fell by the wayside. Some were a single game that didn't go anywhere. Others failed to innovate, sticking to the "tried and true" that got them started, and *died off*. Resident Evil completely reinvented the series with RE4 because sticking to the same things was causing sales to fall. We remember the successes fondly, and long for that feeling of something exiting and new. We don't remember the failures as much, and we don't account for our own changes in who we are as our variety of experiences grow.

    But we can find some of those same feelings of newness and excitement, but it requires *actively trying new things*. You'll never get that feeling of the original Zelda again with a game anything like that, even if you think it's what you want. But you can find it in new game experiences if you keep trying them.

    I hear what you're saying with all of the above, and I think many newer games are enjoyable, but I think it goes beyond a feeling of "newness." -- at least for me it does. Sometimes I'd like to be able to sit down and play a favorite game with a new story. I'd like the game to exist in the same or a similar world with similar game play but be a new story to move through. I don't need the story to be as new and/or exciting as I remember, I'd just like to play the game I love without having to completely learn a new game everytime, but also without knowing everything that has to happen.

    It's sort of like Karate Kid for me. I love the first one, am pretty fond of the second, and will sometimes watch 3 and 4. But the reboot...meh. There have been plenty of great martial arts films since then, but none of them replace Karate Kid for me. But then Youtube comes along and releases Cobra Kai, and it's amazing. Same world, same characters, same basic concepts, but new stories...I don't have to learn anything new or really work to hard for it...I just get to sit back and enjoy, but it's fresh and new.

    This is how I read Robert's original post...give the story of Breath of the Wild with the feel of The Legend of Zelda. Sure there wouldn't be as huge of a market for it, but given that it would basically just be new stories (since game building with that level of animation could be done pretty quick these days), the creation of something like that would be astronomically cheaper.

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  5. GibGirl's Avatar

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  6. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl
    Have you actually PLAYED any of these new games that you lament as being not nearly as good as the originals?




    RTM REPLY - actually yes I have played several of these...but my perspective remains the same, much like it did for preferring "Diablo" and "Diablo II" over the more modern "Diablo III".

    The sole exceptions that I make is how the "Doom" series has evolved over the decades as well as "Wolfenstein".

    The way you responded almost sounded defensive in some respects. I assure you that I am not blasting the newer versions of franchise titles, I simply prefer the earlier formats, plain and simple.

  7. RTM's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl
    Remember that doing something truly *new* is difficult to do



    RTM REPLY - not at all...just requires some thought !! A truly "new" idea is indeed tough, but derivatives which combine elements from several already-created ideas is relatively easy (such as combining the movement/shooting direction or arcade "Gyruss" with Atari 2600 "Kaboom" and have the "Mad Bomber" throwing bombs outward from the center as your "buckets" move around in a circular direction trying to catch them).

    As for truly new idea, here's one that I guarantee has NOT been done yet...professional rock climbing. Digitally recreate some of the best known mountains the paths of which have been well documented as well as any other widely documented object that the pros like to climb such as "El Capitain". I think a 3D-glasses opportunity to climb these, with computer assisted weather and condition tweaks, plus multi-player capability since some climbing requires teams. This has not yet been done before in a video game.

    3-Dimensional Golf has also not been done, and before anyone starts saying "Yes it has" what I am thinking of is the golf games as seen in the classic "Jetsons" cartoons. Each hole's fairway was floating via anti-grav units so your shot was not only length/distance but height as some platforms were higher or lower than your current one.

    Multi-player hand-to-hand fighting...ever see the old kung fu films where 30 or more opponents surround The Hero yet only one or two attack at a time ? Do-able...just requires the programming.

    I'd also like to see "Rollerball" programmed based on the vintage James Caan classic. THAT would get me into the modern-era arcades for sure.

    Back to "New"...how about formalizing the "Squid Search" idea that I proposed well over a decade ago for TG ? Ever see the wrecked ship decoration for the bottom of a fish tank with holes in the side of the sunken ship, port holes, etc ? Have an old-fashioned 2D-shooter with a timer. Various fishes go by both in front of, behind AND inside the ship and you get points for shooting them, plus a bonus for getting each squid. Simple to design and could be made to run on WolfMAME or as its own standalone program.

    In the 10-15 minutes that I spent typing this off-the-top-of-my-head, I firmly believe that true game designers could easily come up with "new" ideas if given just a solid hour. When you think of the sheer pace that new ideas were released in home console (2600) and arcade format from 1978-1987 these guys were just banging them out at breakneck pace. Surely gamers or designers today can be just as clever and visionary as the devs of the past !!


  8. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM

    As for truly new idea, here's one that I guarantee has NOT been done yet...professional rock climbing. Digitally recreate some of the best known mountains the paths of which have been well documented as well as any other widely documented object that the pros like to climb such as "El Capitain". I think a 3D-glasses opportunity to climb these, with computer assisted weather and condition tweaks, plus multi-player capability since some climbing requires teams. This has not yet been done before in a video game.


    It's not something new (you're only 30 years out of date) but hasn't been done to the extent you describe: https://www.mobygames.com/game/zx-spectrum/final-assault ;)

  9. RTM's Avatar

    Thanks, Andrew !! Never heard of that one before. I like how the backpack is part of the weight allowance and movement consideration.

    My idea is a bit more extensive as you mentioned...I'd go so far as to allow your character to do it all even hammering in the objects that you attach your ropes to, etc. I'd also allow an option for "freestyle climbing" as "El Capitain" has been free-styled in record time recently, I'd add in inclement weather consideration both snow, rain and extreme cold, oxygen thinning consideration and sleep considerations...may as well make it as real as you can.

    The toughest consideration would be incorporating avalanches...such programming would likely be too extensive/complex.

  10. TimODonnell's Avatar

    Robert, I'm going to respectfully disagree on the lack of interest in the Breath of the Wild sequel. I grew up playing the original Zelda and The Adventure of Link on the NES, as well as Link's Awakening on the Gameboy. Ocarina of Time was my favorite game for many years. For me, Breath of the Wild was an experience of exploring a massive world that I can only imagine that people who grew up on the Atari 2600 felt the first time they played the original Zelda. My Switch has let me know that my total time playing BotW has well exceeded 100 hours, yet I feel like I am not even close to having explored all that game has to offer. I understand the trepidation that some will have towards a sequel they worry will just be a rehash or a slight change to a game that has come before. But in my opinion, BotW was a completely new experience in a long beloved franchise and I think Nintendo deserves the benefit of the doubt that the world they created there has enough juice for a second adventure.

  11. RTM's Avatar

    No need to say "respectfully" at all, Tim, I am quite aware that there are fans of both the modern versions of classic titles as well as the die-hards who prefer the original formats !!

    What I was wondering, even hoping for, is why the "old format" of these classic titles has been seemingly abandoned across the board in favour of the more modern format. I never said that the new formats were terrible, far from it.

    I do believe that a market still exists should the devs ever decide to release for those franchise titles in the old format...if you consider that "Super Mario Brothers" does quite well in both 2D and 3D format the same, I feel, would hold true if applied to the "Zelda" and "Metroid" franchise among others.

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