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Salim Farhat
10-25-2018 at 12:03 AM
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Wall Entry at 10-25-2018 06:54 AM

I have a question for all you Pinball Wizard's out there. I've been aiming to break the world record for Street Fighter II: Championship edition pinball for sometime now. I have a video where I show my score of 154 million (just shy of 15 million to break the 169 million currently). According to the rules, the machine must be on factory defaults.


Now I spoke with the employees of the place, and they said they would not able to open the operator's door to show the internals. So that's going to be a major damper... or is that just for video games and not pinball? What exactly are the factory defaults for SFII: CE Pinball?


The place has it's replay set at 49 million to start. It's an older machine that is in need of some repair. The Honda light doesn't flash, and I don't remember if the Chun-Li flipper is working as it should.


I put the link to my video down below.


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Comments
  1. GibGirl's Avatar

    I'm surprised that TG even still tracks pinball scores. They're not really that useful, because each machine can vary so much.

  2. Snowflake's Avatar

    pinball's been discussed a few times here. @Barthax i know has some links i read but never bookmarked. Since, as gibgirl points out there are so many differences that we just have to accept i dont think anyone could really complain about not showing the internals. recordng the playfield should be the important thing. I'm pretty sure the walking dead pinball was an experiment on how adjudicators would handle it, but i was taking a break from adjudicating at the time.

    for stuff like this really the best thing to do is submit, see what happens, and if need be resubmit after feedback.

  3. Barthax's Avatar

    Before the scores during TGSAP, I think the pinball scores were only ever taken from two sources:

    - live scores during competitions where TG had a referee presence.

    - Walter's own research into pre-Internet competitions.

    Both @timmell and @bensweeneyonbass have actively submitted pinball scores (would be easy to check the Accepted forum & filter for Pinball platform). Perhaps those chaps can chime in on their preparations. It would be great to see regular Pinball submissions. :)

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  4. GibGirl's Avatar

    I mean, what does "default settings" mean? How does that apply to the tilt of the table, the strength of the flippers, the bands that are on the table, such as for flippers and slingshots? Am I allowed to adjust the kickouts to directions that make it easier to handle? Selectively wax and clean the playfield to make some areas faster and others slower? What about changing the lighting? I've had the chance at shows to play two separate of the same machine that feel so completely different that it wouldn't seem appropriate to compare scores between them.

    Then we have the fact that some of the machines on here stating "default settings" are never set to the defaults for PAPA tournaments, meaning the scores already here from tournaments might well be non-legitimate by that definition. The machine I own, for example - Demolition Man. The claw mechanism at the top of the playfield is always disabled. This results in the machine automatically selecting modes in a set order. Enabling the claw, which would be the "default", allows the player to select which mode manually. And in a tournament, that would always be just one of the five modes.

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  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    you do have to remember to judge pinball by its culture and not confuse it video gamers way of doing. While we look at the randomness of pinball and feel that makes it untrackable, they look at patternable memorizable games and view it as not even real game worthy of competition, just a test of memory. So yes due to video game predictablitily we have been able to set fairly uniform rules, a video gamer going to pinball will feel some things are awkward. pinball though is its own thing, and competitions understand and accept differences are part of the game -- and actually make the game more interesting since you cant just memorize shots.

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  6. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl

    I mean, what does "default settings" mean? How does that apply to the tilt of the table, the strength of the flippers, the bands that are on the table, such as for flippers and slingshots? Am I allowed to adjust the kickouts to directions that make it easier to handle? Selectively wax and clean the playfield to make some areas faster and others slower? What about changing the lighting? I've had the chance at shows to play two separate of the same machine that feel so completely different that it wouldn't seem appropriate to compare scores between them.

    Then we have the fact that some of the machines on here stating "default settings" are never set to the defaults for PAPA tournaments, meaning the scores already here from tournaments might well be non-legitimate by that definition. The machine I own, for example - Demolition Man. The claw mechanism at the top of the playfield is always disabled. This results in the machine automatically selecting modes in a set order. Enabling the claw, which would be the "default", allows the player to select which mode manually. And in a tournament, that would always be just one of the five modes.


    Most of the tracks on the scoreboard which show "Default settings" for pinball tables are pieces of text that were added long after the scores were done - they are very often incorrect retrospective "filling in the blanks".

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  7. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    This is really interesting. Thanks.


    The only problem for me now if that I don't know if I should submit my score... because of two reasons.


    1: I have taken a new video, but it only shows the score, not the playfield... I tried to use a camera rig since I didn't have a cameraman to record everything.


    2: The Chunli flipper is entirely non-functional. I am not sure if this a potential setting or the flipper is broken (it is entirely stationary), and I also just learned through videos on the machine that some ramps are supposed to raise and lower, but they don't on this machine. Again, I don't know if it is because of poor maintenance or the settings were done that way. The ramps always being lowered does not make the game impossible, but it does make the game much harder (accessing the Vega and Zangief parts are much harder since they have to be through a ramp).


    Settings or poor maintenance? I do not know. I have a score of 196 million and I have the video that shows the scoreboard, but not the play field due to an awkward setup of my camera rig. Also there's a sort of a guy who finally mastered the game and has a score of 650 million on youtube (no full video available) and I feel that my score might be enough for TG, but I don't consider it even close to the true score, which is extremely difficult to achieve (I mean pinball machines are intensely difficult as it is).

  8. GibGirl's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    you do have to remember to judge pinball by its culture and not confuse it video gamers way of doing. While we look at the randomness of pinball and feel that makes it untrackable, they look at patternable memorizable games and view it as not even real game worthy of competition, just a test of memory. So yes due to video game predictablitily we have been able to set fairly uniform rules, a video gamer going to pinball will feel some things are awkward. pinball though is its own thing, and competitions understand and accept differences are part of the game -- and actually make the game more interesting since you cant just memorize shots.


    But the way pinball is so different from video games is why I think high score tracking isn't nearly as useful. I can put up billion plus scores on my home Demo Man machine nearly every time I play, but that doesn't translate to any of the Demo Man machines I play at the NW Pinball Show. I know the rules and what to shoot for, but the shots just feel different on each machine. It would be like if every Donkey Kong machine had slightly different speeds that Mario runs, DK throws different barrel patterns, and so on.


    And if I wanted to go for a high score, what would stop me from moving the outlane posts to the most favorable location, tweaking the slingshot power to put the ball where I want it, or even buying replacement ramps and bending them a bit to make them easier to get up? I can make the machine play in the way that makes it as easy as possible for me, knowing that nobody else gets to play on my machine. And at least some of these things would be impossible to verify from video if they've been done. How are you going to tell if I roughened up the surface of the inlanes and by the flippers so the ball moves slower, making it easier to target my shots? Did I intentionally put bands around the posts to deaden the bounces and make it more controllable, or is it just because they're older and have less spring?


    I'd argue that in most cases, the arcade and MAME versions of a title are much more similar than two of the same pinball machine.

  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    I again agree with you on differences just don’t agree that means we shouldn’t track it at all. It does highlight that video gamers might have trouble adjudicating pinball. You do bring up an excellent point about modifications. This was likely not much of an issue before when scores were taken from tournaments so that put some limit on how crazy mods could get. I think we would need some rules that basically prevent people from modifications that go beyond the sort of differences you would reasonably expect back in the day. The spirit of such rules is pretty easy to understand but I have no doubt the fine details would create many tough corner cases and arguments. I would say for new tracks let’s try to find a way to make good rules and fir old tracks lets just make sure we only allow the variances that we can reasonably expect we’re allowed then. I am NOT a pinball expert but I have to think we can figure out something better than just not treacking. Even a bad track is better than no back. Also it’s my understanding pinball doesn’t affect wr count or esi so that should help alleviate some concerns of unfairness to other gamers

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