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Salim Farhat
02-04-2019 at 08:56 PM
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Wall Entry at 02-05-2019 04:42 AM

Guys. I need your help once more and again... Do you remember the points leeching case I had with Caveman Ninja? Well there was a record I wanted to smash, but I had issues getting enough score.


That game is Shadow Warriors, the 1988 classic. Now during a practice run I ended up with around 160K points (probably closer to 170K) and this was an issue. I needed some way to bolster up my score... and I did not want to leech.


I discovered two places in the game that have respawning enemies that could be defeated for a substantial amount of points... and the game itself has a timer, which severely limits the amount you can defeat before you seriously need to move on, and fighting them is not safe and requires precision timing.


So I am wondering here... would this cause a problem if I tried to go for the record and used that trick to get enough score? I really need some feedback. I am planning on taking a few videos to show exactly what I mean by those two spots.

Comments
  1. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    Actually I take this back. Upon some further experimentation I realize that this takes far too much skill to be points scabbing... At least those for Level 2. Level 3, however, is a different beast all together.

    Updated 02-04-2019 at 09:54 PM by Salim Farhat
  2. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    Ok so I did take a video of that second part where I believe points could be leeched... and I need to make it clear, without doing this at least to a certain extent, it would not be possible to break the world record since I would be 30 or 40K below the points requirement for a world record.



  3. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    Holy crap! This is worse than I thought. You don't even need to kick those guys to gain points. Just letting them go through will net you 300 points a pop no matter what you do. :/ This is a pretty serious issue.

  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    do you gain lives while doing it? if there's a timer, and you dont gain lives, its not infinite, so not leeching

    also, it sure doesnt look like a bug. more of a design flaw/explot, but it seems pretty clear the programming was designed to work like that, they just never anticipated you to take full advantage of it.

    (break for opinion, this is why games like this should be speed run and not score oriented!!!!! but moving on...)

    not a bug, not leeching. all thats left is "spirit of the game". i for one hate subjective rules. yes, i'm not stupid, i can see where this isnt really the spiriti, but in my opinion anything short of speed running isnt the spirit, since the spirit is to win, so where do you draw the line? Also, i do think its clear the "spirit" is for you to maybe kick 3 or 4, get your bearings, thne move forward. but whats the magic number? 3,? 4? 5? I dont think its fair to say only kick 1, it'd be pretty easy to kick just one, but not quite feel confident to move forward just yet. i dont think we can decide on where the magic numer is

    but anyway

    1. not leeching
    2. not bug
    3. a "spirit of the game" argument will DEIFNITELY occure if you do this. I for one will take the "accept" side of the argument. I even suspect that will be the winning side, but of cousre i cant predict other peoples votes. I can predict the argument will get heated and go on for many pages as thats how these things always play out.

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  5. Blackflag82's Avatar

    For me, if you can't gain lives with doing this, then there's no problem. The timer means it's not infinite and if the number of lives are finite as well than your point pressing rather than leeching.

    To me the spirit of the game debate occurs when the question of leeching is there. When there is a timer and a life limit, it's not leeching. And there are plenty of games with this exact scenario that have been accepted

    I think it's hilarious that the programmers decided they needed to give those giants 10 pack and though

  6. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    do you gain lives while doing it? if there's a timer, and you dont gain lives, its not infinite, so not leeching

    also, it sure doesnt look like a bug. more of a design flaw/explot, but it seems pretty clear the programming was designed to work like that, they just never anticipated you to take full advantage of it.

    (break for opinion, this is why games like this should be speed run and not score oriented!!!!! but moving on...)

    not a bug, not leeching. all thats left is "spirit of the game". i for one hate subjective rules. yes, i'm not stupid, i can see where this isnt really the spiriti, but in my opinion anything short of speed running isnt the spirit, since the spirit is to win, so where do you draw the line? Also, i do think its clear the "spirit" is for you to maybe kick 3 or 4, get your bearings, thne move forward. but whats the magic number? 3,? 4? 5? I dont think its fair to say only kick 1, it'd be pretty easy to kick just one, but not quite feel confident to move forward just yet. i dont think we can decide on where the magic numer is

    but anyway

    1. not leeching
    2. not bug
    3. a "spirit of the game" argument will DEIFNITELY occure if you do this. I for one will take the "accept" side of the argument. I even suspect that will be the winning side, but of cousre i cant predict other peoples votes. I can predict the argument will get heated and go on for many pages as thats how these things always play out.


    You cannot gain extra lives this way. The only way to gain extra lives in the game is to break containers that have extra lives (some are random, but most are pre-programmed and will always show up).


    So if it isn't points leeching to you guys. Then I guess it's OK. You don't even need to do a lot in order to even get enough to break the world record. Hell, I just spent like 40 game seconds (not a lot, and with plenty to spare for the bosses) and when I finally got to the end game I was just short of a few thousand points to finish it, so I don't need to spend an entire life just waiting there or do anything drastic in order to bolster my score.


    There are also other similar exploits in the 2nd level, but that one cannot be seen as leeching because it is very, very hard and you can only do it for a very brief period of time, and the net gain to your score would amount to 5 or 7K extra at the most. Which is not a dramatic number.

  7. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Does the game have a timer on all the levels?

    If so, I would say that unless there is a way to replay a level without losing a life, nothing in the game could be construed as leeching because it is not infinite.

  8. Salim Farhat's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82

    Does the game have a timer on all the levels?

    If so, I would say that unless there is a way to replay a level without losing a life, nothing in the game could be construed as leeching because it is not infinite.


    Yes, the game has a timer for all levels. There is an item you can get (randomly) when smashing containers that allows you to add 20 seconds of game time. However at that specific point in the game, there are no more containers prior to the boss fight (which ends the exploit as soon it starts).

  9. Blackflag82's Avatar

    based on your description and what I've seen from the video you posted, I'd say the points issue in this game is one of time/life management and therefore not leeching, so to me, it wouldn't be an issue to accept

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