Sep/05 - The Monthly MAME Challenge Title is...

  1. New Score + Info

    09-10-2005, 12:42 PM
    Hello fellow gamers:

    Peter Dennett raised his personal best by more than double to 133K. In the process, I have seen something happen for the very first time, and based on the precedents established across many other titles, TG will allow for the possibility of the awarded \"Lucky\" extra life.

    I'm not 100% sure what causes this, but it is definitely part of the game thus will be allowed. Here, now, are the current rankings...

    1st Place - 298,600 points by Greg Erway (round 15)
    2nd Place - 133,440 points by Peter Dennett (round 9)

    I'll give this one a go next week...today is INP verifications for me !!

    Robert
  2. 09-10-2005, 02:33 PM
    Robert,

    The \"Lucky Chance\" happens at the end of every game (once and only once). It's fairly easy to get once you get used to it. I figure I'm 99% on it at this point. Unfortunatly, I forgot about it on my 298k game and got up from the computer only to realize I had to run back. From a few months ago I thought it automatically stopped after a few rotations so I hurried back and made a quick shot at it and missed by one. But it appears you can let the wheel spin and spin as long as you want I think. I agree it should be allowed (since it's once and always once and everyone has a fair chance at it since it's not all that hard to get).
    Gregory S. Erway

    #1 Tapper TGTS 3,162,125 05Jun05 (Guiness 2007 score)
    #1 Rootbeer Tapper TGMS 1,959,200 28Jul86
    #1 Wild Western 826,900 07Jun04
    #1 Pepper II 917,540 11Mar07 (over 1mil now...on tape)
    D2K progress: 199,700 L5 100m (board 36)
  3. 09-11-2005, 02:09 PM
    This is important because there are other games this would apply.

    For example... swimmer

    Cameltry is another example where there is a lottery/lucky chance when your time runs out to get up to another 20 seconds.

    This has been used by some to bumper leech. Bumper leeching within the maze confines(not wall warping) is within the game so must be allowed IMHO....but then whether to allow the extra time was an issue at MARP.

    Anyway, I felt that sort of is similar to Guzzler and swimmer.

    Given it is a skill shot type of thing, any player can potentially do it...so perhaps it's allowable.

    On a similar note, in zookeeper...can you intentionally kill yourself in the first level where you get the free retry? That isn't a hige deal cuz you only get an extra 100 points...but it's the principle I am asking about here.
    --Rick Carter
    My streaming broadcast channel: www.justin.tv/permafrostrick
  4. 09-11-2005, 05:24 PM
    In Swimmer the extra man you can get by \"matching\" is entirely skill based, although it is hard to get it 100% of the time. With some practice, 60-70% isn't hard though, and I'm sure 90+% is possible. Of course it should be allowed as part of the game.

    -George
  5. Allow It

    09-11-2005, 07:43 PM
    Hello fellow gamers:

    A few things we allow in TG that are of this nature, but we have to be practical and not draconian in certain decisions.

    -> Whether to allow gamers to constantly go for quick drops in pinball so as to get another launch attempt. This is IF such a game allows for this. Many allow it just for the first launch of a ball, but I think (I'm not positive) that I've played some which allowed it beyond the launch of a ball. \"Crystal Caliburn\" for the MAC might have been like that.

    -> Whether gamers can squeak out an extra 100 points out of \"Zookeeper\", a game with a 30M point jump...I think we have more meaningful decisions to worry about. I agree...it's an \"extra\", but if everyone knows about it, so what?

    -> We have already made similiar decisions in favour of letting things go like this...such as with \"Wizard of Wor\"...players are allowed to kill off the computer opponents if they wish. Mark Longridge made that call years back.

    -> For the Advanced MAME deca last year we made the decision to include \"Lucky Chance\" as it is an integral part of the game and was part of what was originally intended by the programmer. I'd say that this precedent applies moreso than any other.

    I'm sure there are other decisions that we've made over the years allowing for such starts. I can even think of one other in an RPG title of all things. The game is \"Faxanadu\"...I am fairly sure that once and once only you can return to the King at inception for an additional 1,000 gold pieces after spending every cent that he gave you with the right combination of purchases.

    So, \"Lucky Chance\" stays.

    Robret
  6. 09-12-2005, 11:05 AM
    Robert,

    my point above is TG needs to be consistent on this type of ruling. Inconsistency results in confusion.

    ...so given the above...the guzzler extra must be allowed then also otherwise it would be inconsistent with other rulings.

    yes, I overall agree to allow these things...since all gamers have that potential extra man....whether a skilled time thing or a truly lucky shot. Pinball tracks sets the precedent for the luck case....end game matching for an extra ball...and auto-light of extra ball for many pinball games if you don't score beyond a certain amount on your first so-many balls. ...so that applies for video games also.

    I guess the only exception would be for 5-man only type tracks where a potential extra man would be beyond the 5th man. then that wouldn't apply anyway....obvious enough. :P
    --Rick Carter
    My streaming broadcast channel: www.justin.tv/permafrostrick
  7. 09-15-2005, 07:45 PM
    How is everyone doing this month? I've been spending way too much time on stage 1...I always find myself restarting trying to get that perfect round 1.

    So far I'm averaging about 33-37k on round 1 with a best of 41830 (got a 4000x2 score on that one - took 82 seconds total)

    I keep dying in the most stupid ways - I'll submit an inp as soon as I can stop myself from resetting the game after stupid deaths. :D
  8. URGENT - Banned Trick Found !!

    09-15-2005, 09:22 PM
    Hello fellow gamers:

    Scores remain where they are for now as I've had no new submissions save for those of the \"FYI\" kind. However, a newly discovered \"255 lives\" trick has now been found to exist in this game.

    Greg Erway is credited with the discovery, unless legend-lore from yesteryear would indicate otherwise.

    Somehow, and even he is not sure how he did this, but he was awarded quite a few extra lives. I have the INP to watch tonight and it's a level 50 game. Needless to say, the trick, if enacted, would be banned.

    In the spirit of competition, so that gamers do not accidentally do this in the middle of a great game thus potentially disqualifying the performance, we will try to ascertain the cause of this trick.

    Robert
  9. 09-16-2005, 02:49 AM
    I played out that game to probably 2 million points or so (right around 2 hours). I did kill off all the men to show that there were 255 men and not an infinite amount of men. I think I cycled the levels at least 3 times (and they do get much faster after the first round and patterns change a bit on some). I have no idea how it happens. This was the second time it has happened to me. I first did this during the GEGOTW that Weehawk put on last year. That was under a higher version of MAME. This was the first time I've seen it in MAME.78. I looked at the previous inp (from GEGOTW) in the past trying to figure out what happened. I tried to do exactly the same moves to recreate it and it didn't work. So I have no idea. Unfortunatly, I thought I was on pace to submit a new high for this monthly tournament when it happened (I think I was in the 200k range when it triggered). Basically the first digit of the score becomes some crazy character (changes to some other crazy thing each time you add 100k) and the men fill up across the bottom and in memory. I thought it was important for Robert to actually see this himself so I sent him the inp.

    I wish I knew how to do it on command (so I could avoid doing it by accident). But I think it's fairly rare and random.

    Oh, and just to add insult to injury, I did get the extra \"Extra Chance\" life at the end of the game. The higher the level you are on when you lose your last life, the faster the extra life wheel spins. But it's still fairly easy to get with some practice.

    I did some investigation on level times and I never took more than 70 seconds to finish a level (including the combined time of all lives on levels where I died). In the analysis, I only missed spelling GUZZLER two times out of the 15 levels so I was taking time to set that up in those low round times. I certainly think a couple minute time limit per level would make sense as a rule. It appears the use of the leeching trick is going to be banned it's just a matter of coming up with the simplest rule (understandable by even a novice player) to convey what is not allowed.
    Gregory S. Erway

    #1 Tapper TGTS 3,162,125 05Jun05 (Guiness 2007 score)
    #1 Rootbeer Tapper TGMS 1,959,200 28Jul86
    #1 Wild Western 826,900 07Jun04
    #1 Pepper II 917,540 11Mar07 (over 1mil now...on tape)
    D2K progress: 199,700 L5 100m (board 36)
  10. 09-17-2005, 05:42 AM
    I find myself restarting a lot less now due to bad early board scores... there are just so many points to be made in the latter levels that a couple bad boards early on has little effect. Now I just need to die less :)
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