New Galaxian WR

  1. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 08:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RMacauley
    Congratulations Aart on both your now verified (as per the front page right now) 1,653,270 and the unofficial 1.987M score. Hell of a performance mate. I can see a pattern forming here though. IIRC your PB on Ms Pac was an unrecorded 950K+ and now we have an unrecorded 1.9M+ on Galaxian. Might be time to invest in a video camera methinks. And don't leave home without it. :wink:

    Cheers

    Rob
    Rob thx! And i agree lol - I'll see what money i have left for some recording equipment. :mrgreen: I just hate lugging all that stuff around tho.

    I do have the 953k MsPac on tape, but only the final ½ hour unfortunately, and it reset after board 133 :( . Like the Galaxian game, it was (of course) just a practise game, isn't that always the way... :roll:

    Hope to see you again soon Rob either in November or May!
    There's a few bright gold Sam Adams and some crispy chicken fingers waiting for us at ye ol' Tavern :P
  2. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 08:36 AM
    Sorry for the delay Aart, but it's there and was a pleasure to have been there to witness it. :) Definitely will work on finding the definitive answer to the 2P query outside of the informal idea.


    Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
  3. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 08:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
    Sorry for the delay Aart, but it's there and was a pleasure to have been there to witness it. :) Definitely will work on finding the definitive answer to the 2P query outside of the informal idea.

    Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
    Not a problem at all Kelly, thankyou so much!
    I appreciate your having taken the time for it :D

    Btw i played (and recorded) an inp of a 2p game in WolfMame 106, the score still rolls over at 1M on the 2nd player would you believe!! This is no guarantee that it would do the same on the arcade version(s), but it's not looking good. Do you know if the Galaga romset allows the millions digit in MAME on player 2 like it does on the arcade? Thx!

    Kelly i have a few regrets from my vacation...
    one of them is that i was hoping to challenge you to a few games of Mata Hari! My best last vacation was 436k, this time around my best was only 377k. The evilness of tb-syndrome prevailed...

    I'm glad to have rolled PinBot tho, i hadn't done that before.

    Thx again for the galaxian verification, hope to see ya back in November!
  4. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 09:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by PacWhiz
    Btw i played (and recorded) an inp of a 2p game in WolfMame 106, the score still rolls over at 1M on the 2nd player would you believe!! This is no guarantee that it would do the same on the arcade version(s), but it's not looking good. Do you know if the Galaga romset allows the millions digit in MAME on player 2 like it does on the arcade? Thx!

    O.O;; Seriously?! It rolls on the 2P Side?! Bogus! Well, there goes me save stating my ass to 1 Million. ^^; As far as I can recall, the Galaga romset allows the millions in MAME as well.


    Kelly i have a few regrets from my vacation...
    one of them is that i was hoping to challenge you to a few games of Mata Hari! My best last vacation was 436k, this time around my best was only 377k. The evilness of tb-syndrome prevailed...

    o.o? I didn't know you wanted to have a go at her with me. Well damn! That will have to be remedied.


    I'm glad to have rolled PinBot tho, i hadn't done that before

    Thx again for the galaxian verification, hope to see ya back in November!

    No worries.. and Pin.Bot rolls? Nice! Maybe that means Fire will also roll too! I will be much happier to put up over 10 Million on that if possible!

    As for November, considering the things that occured when I got home, financially November does not seem too likely. Then again, who knows.. stranger things have happened.


    Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
  5. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 10:10 AM
    Gary Whelan was telling me, that if he sets the dipswitches on his home Galaxian machine to what TG lists on the track, the free ship score sets to 20k. Possibly a discrepancy with his cocktail version, because when comparing the dipswitch setting in the manual (for program #1) to the TG settings, it does actually check out fine (sry Gary!).Agree mostly Aart , but the above ?? The machine at Funspot ( which I presume has the correct dip switch settings ) , now gives a bonus ship at 20K .The same as the board I have at home .........

    There is NO Midway / Namco Galaxian cocktail version . There is one wire Grounded out on the connector which enables the game to be played on player 2 side . That is it .

    There is a third version of the galaxian code . You played on it at Funspot after having the chips changed . I have the documentation which includes 20K bonus setting for this third version .

    gary
  6. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 01:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by sandinista
    Quote Originally Posted by PacWhiz
    Gary Whelan was telling me, that if he sets the dipswitches on his home Galaxian machine to what TG lists on the track, the free ship score sets to 20k. Possibly a discrepancy with his cocktail version, because when comparing the dipswitch setting in the manual (for program #1) to the TG settings, it does actually check out fine (sry Gary!).
    Agree mostly Aart , but the above ?? The machine at Funspot ( which I presume has the correct dip switch settings ) , now gives a bonus ship at 20K .The same as the board I have at home .........
    I did not word that very well in my post, i merely meant that for cocktail machines perhaps the dipswitches need to be in different positions as compared to the upright cabs. Yes the FunSpot Galaxian now gives bonus ship at 20k, whereas previously (with the 'old chips') it gave it at 5k - that's the part i don't fully understand. The only other time i saw a 20k bonus ship setting is with the MAME Namco Set 1; plus your home machine can be set to 20k as well. So do you have dips 3 & 4 ON as listed on TG's settings, or another dip setting Gary? Doesn't matter too much, but it is interesting why the machine at FS suddenly went to 20k.


    Quote Originally Posted by sandinista
    There is NO Midway / Namco Galaxian cocktail version . There is one wire Grounded out on the connector which enables the game to be played on player 2 side . That is it .
    Oh i see, i did not know that, i thought Midway had 'official' cocktail machines made as well, sorry about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by sandinista
    There is a third version of the galaxian code . You played on it at Funspot after having the chips changed . I have the documentation which includes 20K bonus setting for this third version .

    gary
    A 3rd version, really? Did i miss you telling me this at FunSpot?
    Well I suppose it must be, as the 2 versions listed in the manual i found online only give free ship settings in the 3-7k range. Would you mind scanning that 3rd version documentation so i could have a peek? I'd love to see it! Are there any other alternative settings listed in said version? I did just actually find out that on the galmidwo romset (Midway, old rev) in MAME, if you set the free ship to 20k, it will say 'Bonus Galaxip for 5000 pts' upon entering your credit (and indeed supply the bonus ship at 5k) - very odd, and if you set it to 7k, it gives NO bonus ship! It's a 'set 2' i.e. with the more diagonal enemy fire. It seems perfectly identical to FunSpot's machine prior to the eprom switch-out. Why this would change it to 20k is a mystery to me. Do you think it could have something to do with the eproms possibly being Namco chips and the FunSpot board being Midway (considering in MAME the Namco Set 2 can be set to 20k)? Or do you believe the FunSpot crew just switched a dip (or 2) when changing out those eproms?


    I was also curious about one other point we discussed.
    You mentioned being able to more frequently undercut the 30/60 pt blue enemies on your home machine, as well as some other minor nuances (such as enemy rest time after shooting yellow flagship). Have you played your home machine yet since FunSpot, and were you able to substantiate those nuances? Or do you think it was more to do with the spatial ratio you were getting used to in going from your smaller monitor to the one at FunSpot?

    Btw I forgot to ask you this: have you ever played Galaxian in MAME? As i was playing it in MAME when i got back home, i found that i was unable to pick off the enemies as fast as on the Arcade version. The ratio of width versus height seems slightly off in MAME, the height slightly elongated, resulting in fractionally more time needed for the missiles to reach the stationary enemies. This could just be an illusion but i was hoping someone else could verify or bust this for me... Gary? :mrgreen:

    Also, one other thing i found that i had not noticed previously, is the sound of the fleet in MAME vs Arcade. The pulsating background sound on MAME is very very slow at the start of each wave, whereas on the Arcade version it's quite rapid to start with.

    We didn't get a chance to say adios Gary, but it was an absolute TREAT to talk with you again! Was hoping to catch you for a beer at the Tavern or something but after your Galaxian games I could never figure out where you disappeared off to :wink: I always enjoy our alternating-wave games, and wouldn't it be cool if there was a track for that, altho we would probably be unchallenged for it lol. I suppose the rule would have to be, no Gary&Aart team allowed 8) Could be a lot of fun with different team-partners!

    Cheerz!

    Special thx to Stephan Suys at hobbyroms.com for the eproms & superb service!
  7. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 03:13 PM
    Aart, big congrats on your score!! Wish I could have been there to see it, and play some triples with you and Gary. Next year!

    I've been digging into this myself today to try to help out and found some links / info that may be helpful to solving this:

    Namco (Set 1) Dip Switch Settings

    http://www.solvalou.com/subpage/arcade_dips/G/galaxian

    Galaxian EPROMS

    http://www.marvin3m.com/video/galaxian.htm

    Midway Galaxian Manual (Per Aart's post, but included here for easy reference)

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13927575/Galaxian-Manual

    ___

    It's making some sense to me now as I wade through some of this:

    - Up until Nov 24, 2008, Funspot has Midway, Program #2 (Difficult). Agreed, as far as I could tell when I played it there at Funspot X.

    - Funspot swaps in EPROMS from hobbyroms.com on Nov 24, 2008. Here is where it gets a little tricky:

    > Hobbyroms apparently burns EPROMS 7F, 7J, and 7L, and claim these are just 'graphic' EPROMS. However, when they are swapped in at Funspot, and Aart plays, the game now plays on Program #1 (Original / Easier), as desired. So, these clearly are not just graphic EPROMS.

    Some background info and possible explanation (needs more investigation though), referencing the links above:

    See the notes on page 2 of the Midway Galaxian Manual:

    'Early models were not equipped with memory boards. In these models,"Bad Rom" indicates bad Rom at location 7F or 7H.'

    This suggests to me that early Galaxian boards had two ROMS only at 7F and 7H. However, my bet would be that Funspot does not have one of these old boards, given they swapped more than two EPROMS apparently. So onward...

    Referring now to the Galaxian EPROMS link, scroll down a bit to see note:

    ...Galaxian satellite board is socketed at 7F and 7L. This board holds the five 24 pin 2716 EPROMs (or ROMs) in positions 7U, 7V, 7W, 7Y, 7Z.

    Also see page 25 of the Midway Galaxian Manual for a schematic of this memory board as reference.

    Ok, so now some questions and things to investigate based on this information:

    - What PCB (board) does Funspot have in their machine? Does it include the memory board with the five EPROMS ( 7U, 7V, 7W, 7Y, 7Z)?

    - What is hobbyroms referring to by EPROMS 7F, 7J, and 7L? Are they referring to three of the five chips (7U, 7V, 7W, 7Y, 7Z) on the Midway memory board that is socketed at 7F and 7L on the main board? Or maybe hobbyroms in fact sent five EPROMS (7U, 7V, 7W, 7Y, 7Z) and these were replaced?

    ----

    I had a thought that maybe there is a Namco PCB that is different than the Midway PCB altogehter, and that the Namco PCB might just have three EPROMS at 7F, 7J, and 7L for all code and graphics, as opposed to the Midway PCB with five EPROMS. But that doesn't make sense to me now, because whatever board Funspot has was running Midway Program #2 and was also able to run Namco Program #1 apparently.

    Maybe someone at Funspot can confirm / take some pics of the board and what they did when they replaced the EPROMS.

    Hope this provides more help than confusion.

    --Perry
  8. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 04:15 PM
    It's still confusing to me (own fault tho!), since i'm a total noob in electronics.
    But what you said makes a lot of sense Perry, and here is one of my emails from hobbyroms.com, which i think mostly backs up your statements, altho we still don't know which boardset FunSpot has:

    ==================================================
    From: info@hobbyroms.com
    Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:20:52 PM
    To: haagsblauw@hotmail.com

    Aart,

    Just a quick follow-up to your Galaxian eprom order for Funspot.

    After a bit more research, I discovered that the different Namco Eprom sets also had different PCB configurations.

    Namco Set 1 , which was used for the Midway License agreement,
    has 5 x 2Kb eproms.

    The is most common set because of the License to Midway.

    However Namco Set 2 has a different eprom configuration.
    It uses 2 x 4Kb eproms and 1 x 2Kb
    (…hence only 3 eproms, not 5 like Set 1 )

    Set 1 PCB's have a small auxiliary board to mount the extra eproms,
    whereas Set 2 eproms mount directly on the main board .

    Since you wanted Set 1 eproms for a Set 2 machine,
    I didn't know for sure which boardset Funland had,
    so I actually sent out BOTH eproms configurations. ( 5eproms & 3eproms )

    So regardless if Funland has the 5 x 2K eprom configuration
    or the 2 x 4K + 2K configuration, they should be alright.

    I also included this info (and instruction) in the mail-out to Gary

    I sent out the package yesterday via Express shipping.

    The tracking number ( via http://www.canadapost.ca ) is : LE 086 395 427 CA

    It’s expected to arrive Tues or Wed ( Nov 18-19 ).

    Let me know if this makes any sense to you, or if you have any questions.

    Cheers,
    Stephan

    ==================================================

    And this 2nd email:
    ==================================================
    From: HobbyRoms.Com (info@hobbyroms.com)
    Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:40:08 AM
    To: Aart ... (haagsblauw@hotmail.com)

    [Aart]
    I gathered from Randy Lawton that it took you guys a few emails to 'get things right' as it were...

    [Stephan]
    It was just a question of labelling...
    The files I was using to program the chips used the namco PCB location names, so one eproms was labelled "7L" instead of "Z".
    As soon as I clarified that with Randy, all was fine...

    [Aart]
    in the end it all worked out and even tho i only got to play Galaxian romset 1 for 1½ days, i'm still thankful and grateful to you for the effort and the shipment!
    ==================================================

    I hope Stephan won't mind me publicizing above emails.

    So you are correct Perry and i have to say i completely forgot about Stephan's follow-up email... originally he was going to send 3 eproms, which is what stuck in my mind, whereas in fact he sent out 8.

    If either you, Gary, or TG feel my score needs to be put on hold pending more in depth research i will completely understand (just bring your own board in November plz Perry lol). I still maintain that gameplay is as it should be, and identical to an original board (as references i only have the arcade machine i played on 25+ yrs ago, and your own pcb Perry). I could ask Stephan to send me a copy of the emails between himself & Randy Lawton, to determine exactly how the board was modified to play as Set 1. Maybe even Rob Mruczek knows which board is in there, since he donated the Galaxian to FunSpot (i'm assuming they never switched anything out before).

    Sure wish you coulda been with us for FS XI Perry, what happened btw, weren't you originally planning to fly over? I'm sorry for not contacting you before I left, as I said I would... things got a little hectic and depressing over here.
  9. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 05:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by PacWhiz
    Thx everybody, for your kind words & congrats!
    i didn't jot the score down myself as the whole thing's on tape (BIG thx to Greg Laue for recording it! Owe u 1 ;)), AND the classy Mr. Kelly Flewin witnessed the start of the game, the 1M roll-over, and the end of the game, thankyou ref Mr. Kelly F. for taking the time!
    I was happy to help, Aart! I just wish I'd been there in time for the near 2 million game! If any of the video is needed for verification I can make copies and send it to whomever. Mark's got a copy as well.

    Congratz on the score again! I'm still amazed you can keep your concentration for that long.
    Greg Laue
  10. Re: New Galaxian WR

    06-04-2009, 11:54 PM
    That new info is helpful Aart...

    I think we can simplify this some. I'm going to take some guesses here though...

    - Original Namco PCBs (boards) just used three EPROMS (7F, 7J, 7L) on the game logic board. There wasn't an auxiliary board for the Namco boards. This would be true for ROM Sets #1 and #2.

    - When Midway licensed the game, they did not want to use the 2 x 4Mb, 1 x 2Mb (3 chip) configuration used by Namco, but instead use 5 x 2Mb. Could be a number of reasons for this, such as price and availabilty of chips. So the game now exist in both forms, as a 3 chip set and as a 5 chip set.

    Midway modified the Namco PCB to include an auxiliary board for the five chips. (I checked my Midway board tonight, and indeed I have the auxiliary board, but if I were to remove it, there are the three sockets to support the original three Namco EPROMS beneath it.)

    That is really all we need to know about PCBs. The focus needs to be on the program and character ROM chips.

    The important thing here is that the character/graphics are NOT on these three or five chips, as I'll explain below. The 3 chip and 5 chip configs are identical 'program' images.


    - I researched Midway Service Bulletins tonight and found this:

    http://www.arcadiabay.de/manuals/store/ ... ng%201.pdf

    Now, there are even errors in this doc, so I'd advise not trying to analyze it too deeply. The pertinent information I gathered from it though was, per pages 30 and 31:

    1) The Namco and Midway program ROMs are 'interchangable'. So this supports what we already believed, that Midway did not change the game play when they licensed the game from Namco. All they did is change it from a 3 chip config to a 5 chip config.

    2) The Character ROMS are not located on the auxliary board, but at 1J and 1L. I reviewed the Midway Galaxian Manual (p.21) and confirmed the location of these two character ROMs on the schematic.

    3) There is in fact a Midway Rom Set #3 (as Gary noted), but the only change is the Bonus settings, one of which is 20K.

    ____

    So with all this in mind, and per the follow-up emails from hobbyroms.com, my guess is that Funspot's Galaxian had a Midway board (with auxilairy board with five chips), running Midway Program #2 up until Nov 24, 2008. Then Randy swapped out the five chip Set #2 with the five chip Set #1 that hobbyroms provided. (Remember, when it comes to these program Roms, there is NO distinction between Namco and Midway, so I just refer to them as Set #1 and Set #2. Hobbyroms could have just as well said they were providing Midway program Roms.)

    Now, what is significant is that hobbyroms did not send out new Character Roms. So, on Funspot's machine we should STILL see the Midway logo (since Midway character Roms were in the game up until Nov 24, 2008, per Aart confirmation from his taped game, and not swapped out when the program Roms were changed). If someone can confrim this, that would help a lot.

    Maybe even Rob Mruczek knows which board is in there, since he donated the Galaxian to FunSpot (i'm assuming they never switched anything out before).
    Actually, I played on this machine back in 1999 or 2000 on Funspot I or II (can't recall exactly). At that time, it had a board with Set #1 ROMS. While playing, the graphics started breaking up on screen, such that is was unplayable. At that time, Funspot had several different Galaxian boards in the back room, so we swapped them out, but never found another Set #1, all Set #2...and with various Bonus settings too. I distinctly recall the 20K Bonus setting on one of them. So as far as I can recall, they just put one of the working Set #2 boards in at that time. I didn't play it after that. Could be over the years they have since replaced the board as well.

    Whew! I know more about Galaxian now than I ever did...or ever really wanted to :-)

    --Perry
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