Scores achieved at Kong Off 3

  1. Scores achieved at Kong Off 3

    08-08-2014, 07:13 PM
    Just curious, will scores that were achieved live at the Kong Off 3 eventually be entered into the database? Personally, I had two records set (Satan's Hollow and Joust TGTS Doubles with John MacAllister), and I know there were some other scores set (like Sam Miller on Turbo Ms Pac Man).

    Don
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  2. 08-08-2014, 11:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dbh View Post
    Just curious, will scores that were achieved live at the Kong Off 3 eventually be entered into the database? Personally, I had two records set (Satan's Hollow and Joust TGTS Doubles with John MacAllister), and I know there were some other scores set (like Sam Miller on Turbo Ms Pac Man).

    Don
    Live in person adjudication is a separate issue that will be addressed after the basic adjudication system functionality is completed.

    Adding new scores to the database from previous live events that were refereed by someone, but do not have any other tangible proof, is a complex issue that will be looked at and figured out carefully. For instance, if an official TG referee from that time period was the adjudicator, a question must be solved as to why they did not enter the record into the database at that time.

    Don't worry, we will eventually address this specific matter. It is an important issue.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
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  3. 08-15-2014, 07:32 AM
    I'm not sure I get the logic behind this one. Adding scores that were achieved live at a Twin Galaxies sanctioned event, with the guy in your logo acting as head referee, with the then owners of Twin Galaxies in attendance is a complex issue? Why because the company folded before someone had a chance to enter the scores in the database?

    I'm sure no one is questioning the validity of the scores achieved at the Kong off 3 because of a lack of tangible proof. With that logic wouldn't we have to question every score in the database that was preformed live? Including the scores that are currently on the scoreboard achieved at the Kong off 2. It seems to me this is really a question of simple data entry. If the scores had been entered before the collapse it wouldn't be an issue.

    The scores accomplished at the 1 up last year are not "new" scores, some have already made it to this very site. On 11-16-13 several scores were announced and thanks to web.archive you can still see them. Ignoring these scores isn't fair to the competitors, the previous owners, or future challengers. The only purpose it could serve is to alienate those involved.
  4. 08-18-2014, 01:41 PM
    Not exactly a Scooby Doo mystery here. Those scores didn't go in because the website went down immediately after the Kong Off 3 event.

    Nothing complex about anyone's scores from that event, either. Not a fair statement to all those gamers who traveled to a sanctioned Twin Galaxies event with the then-owners and founder present, not to mention a fair amount of press and dozens of witnesses to the goings on.

    That statement is also awfully concerning considering that most of the arcade scores were done live, and that with most former staff throwing their old submission archives in the trash after the end of the Airplane Pete Era®, the overwhelming majority of scores in the database don't have "tangible proof" in terms of the official post.

    There's not a single score achieved at the Kong Off 3 event that should be called into question, and I don't think anyone else there would say otherwise. Those scores should be entered and recognized.
  5. 08-18-2014, 06:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalPSP View Post
    Not exactly a Scooby Doo mystery here. Those scores didn't go in because the website went down immediately after the Kong Off 3 event.

    Nothing complex about anyone's scores from that event, either. Not a fair statement to all those gamers who traveled to a sanctioned Twin Galaxies event with the then-owners and founder present, not to mention a fair amount of press and dozens of witnesses to the goings on.

    That statement is also awfully concerning considering that most of the arcade scores were done live, and that with most former staff throwing their old submission archives in the trash after the end of the Airplane Pete Era®, the overwhelming majority of scores in the database don't have "tangible proof" in terms of the official post.

    There's not a single score achieved at the Kong Off 3 event that should be called into question, and I don't think anyone else there would say otherwise. Those scores should be entered and recognized.
    Contrary to the above statement, from my point of view, there is indeed complexity.

    The current Twin Galaxies doesn't have any record of those scores in its possession. NONE. They were not provided during the asset transfer of TG. So that means that someone has to provide them. Who might that person be? The players themselves? Or a ref who was there? Which ref? Does that ref have all the score records for that day? If not, who else does?

    What if one refs records don't match another one's exactly? What if a player disagrees with what is being provided? What if only some of the score records are provided and not others? In that situation does the player who's records aren't provided just lose out?

    I have no problem with someone to taking a grandstanding position on this subject so that they might gain adulation or whatever, however the fact is that a cavalier approach to heading into this matter could result in numerous problems. Since all it takes to become toxic is for one person involved to cry foul toward another person in the matter of the Kong Off 3 records, the delicate situation around this whole issue should be obvious - that is why I stated that it will be looked at and figured out carefully. As it should be.

    For the purposes of this conversation, "new scores" refers to anything added into the TG database since the ownership change. As of this moment, nothing "new" has been added to it. The data that is in it, is as we received it. We have not altered or entered any new data into the database. While the Kong Off 3 scores are from last year, putting them into the database today would make them a "new" entry. Any "new" entry to the database done under this administration will be done so with transparency and with publicly understood logical reasoning.

    There is no negativity or agenda here. It's just a process and a mindset that is being put in place to create stability, security and structure around the important function that Twin Galaxies should provide.

    Without discipline around TG behavior and decision-making, there can be no stability.

    So if TG just says, "Oh ya, those darn Kong Off 3 scores... what were they? Let's plop them in right now with no process other than our from-the-hip decision making..." - then how can TG not also randomly address Roy Schildt's constant requests regarding missile command issues? From Roy's perspective, his issue is more important. It's all relative and in order for TG to set expectations in these matters correctly, there needs to be a comprehensive approach to this stuff. That's all.

    It's all good, but patience is required. We are working 7 days a week on TG and prioritizing the best we can.

    Please rest assured that we will eventually address this specific Kong Off 3 matter. It is an important issue.

    I hope that made sense.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
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  6. 08-19-2014, 05:54 AM
    Wow. Speaking up for the right thing gets called grandstanding. I thought this ownership aimed to be different. You got Bouvier hidden in a closet back there or something?

    Simply a person who was there giving his opinion after some of the gamers who set scores there reached out to me on this topic.

    It comes off as "cavalier" to suggest that the scores so many players traveled out to perform at a TG event might not have "tangible proof" enough to go into the database. It comes off as "grandstanding" to see overly verbose explanations to back it up.

    A number of the scores received write-ups before the Galaxies imploded. Zero reasons why those can't be entered.

    On the others, yes, of course, accuracy of the scores must be given their due diligence but suggesting those scores don't have "tangible proof" could come off as pretty cold and unfair to the gamers who set scores there. In fact, it already did.

    Well aware of the time being put in to make TG work and that you are prioritizing the best you can, but you can't fail to understand that to the players at that event, their scores are of a huge priority and suggesting there might not be proof enough to list their scores comes off badly.

    Preservation of the scores here was of a huge priority to me when I was here. It still is now, even from far way. If you wish to call that grandstanding, so be it, if it gets the scores set at the Kong Off 3 recognized properly.
  7. 08-19-2014, 06:24 AM
    Just to add my two cents, the reason those scores aren't in the database is the fault of the previous administration, not the current one. Any frustration should be directed toward that ownership and not the team that's currently working to bring the organization back online. And I don't see what is "unfair" about saying the matter will be looked at closely and carefully. That's exactly what should be done and exactly what previous incarnations of Twin Galaxies failed to do.

    Players who achieved scores at the Kong Off 3 have every right to be upset about those scores not being on the scoreboard, I know I would be, but that is not the fault of Jace and the new staff. That's the fault of the last group and their sloppy record-keeping. Directing anger at this current group is misguided.

    They say the Kong Off 3 scores are on the agenda. I believe them. I'll wait and see what happens.
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  8. 08-19-2014, 07:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalPSP View Post
    Wow. Speaking up for the right thing gets called grandstanding. I thought this ownership aimed to be different. You got Bouvier hidden in a closet back there or something?
    Except you're not speaking up for the right thing. You're speaking up for a "good ol' boy" mentality that has no place here.

    Simply a person who was there giving his opinion after some of the gamers who set scores there reached out to me on this topic.
    Irrelevant to the issues involved.

    It comes off as "cavalier" to suggest that the scores so many players traveled out to perform at a TG event might not have "tangible proof" enough to go into the database. It comes off as "grandstanding" to see overly verbose explanations to back it up.
    Other than Allen Staal, I'm pretty sure I traveled farther than anybody (and certainly you) to go to KO3. I can't speak for everyone, but since I actually played a game while I was there I can say I have no issues with how Jace has handled this so far.

    A number of the scores received write-ups before the Galaxies imploded. Zero reasons why those can't be entered.
    There are zero reasons why a "write-up" should be considered proof.

    On the others, yes, of course, accuracy of the scores must be given their due diligence but suggesting those scores don't have "tangible proof" could come off as pretty cold and unfair to the gamers who set scores there. In fact, it already did.

    Well aware of the time being put in to make TG work and that you are prioritizing the best you can, but you can't fail to understand that to the players at that event, their scores are of a huge priority and suggesting there might not be proof enough to list their scores comes off badly.
    Although I didn't set any records I certainly want my scores to be recognized. However, I would rather Jace take the hard road and recognize NO scores from the event than for him take the word of 1) a previous ownership that provided no legitimate documentation or 2) non-journalists with a history of mistakes that have no professional responsibility to be either impartial or accurate in their "write-ups."

    Preservation of the scores here was of a huge priority to me when I was here. It still is now, even from far way. If you wish to call that grandstanding, so be it, if it gets the scores set at the Kong Off 3 recognized properly.
    Proper recognition and preservation require a higher standard of proof than what you're advocating.
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  9. 08-19-2014, 07:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by xelnia View Post
    Other than Allen Staal, I'm pretty sure I traveled farther than anybody (and certainly you) to go to KO3. I can't speak for everyone, but since I actually played a game while I was there I can say I have no issues with how Jace has handled this so far.
    http://i.imgur.com/KZ43NIf.gif
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  10. 08-19-2014, 09:39 AM
    Am I the only one who noticed the coolest part of this thread?
    THE Don Hayes has arrived back on the TG site.
    Hurray.
    Let the competitions commence!

    Jace will get your score stuff squared away in due order, I have no doubt.
    Are you inspired to find the joy in gaming?

    TG employee (82-84)
    robotron2084guidebook.com/
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