Article: Preview of Twin Galaxies’ Score Submission and Adjudication Process

  1. 12-05-2014, 05:09 PM
    I see one potential problem with the date of achievement being trumped and replaced by the date of validation...cases where records are maxed and tied. Being "first" seems to be a big deal to some as was evidenced with several high-profile submissions a few years back. So in cases involving a maxed score, or ties for fastest completion in whole seconds, being "first" carries with it certain bragging rights.

    It is conceivable to envision a situation where Gamer (A) achieves the score/time a day or more ahead of Gamer (B), yet it is Gamer (B's) parcel that either arrives for validation first or is "verified" first. This is an unusual and exceedingly rare situation, but it could in theory happen...and I am wondering how the new record tracking will take this into consideration if at all.
  2. 12-08-2014, 08:16 AM
    I agree with RTM:"date of achievement" is a very important evidence. Logically both "date of achievement" and date of validation must be kept.
    To provide all necessarily fields to make evidence bullet proof will not add to hard drive or disk capacity neither to a make it a tedious capturing process.
    Rather "Safe" than "Sorry"...


    Regards
    Francois
  3. 12-14-2014, 07:32 AM
    So, photographic evidence seems okay for submission as long as the peer-review process deems it acceptable?

    I honestly don't have a problem with that as long as they can provide multiple photos, with the a picture of the console it was used on as well.
  4. 12-16-2014, 12:29 AM
    A few things pics can never tell in the adjudication process...technique, timing and AI-behavior, among other elements...and this is on top of how relatively easy it is to fake a submissions this way. And as with hacker mentality, there will be those who intentionally send in a fake submission just to prove that such can be done. It can and will happen.

    While this is entirely the call of Jace and his team, I am not only never going to send in a pic-only submission, I will never validate one either as far as peer contributions go. After reading everyone's cries for full transparency on score submission requiring the tape so as to eliminate gamers' opportunity to keep performances hidden, it would be hypocritical for people to say that and then adjudicate based on no video tape/recording. Just my opinion.
  5. 12-16-2014, 03:41 AM
    Photos should be cool. Just as long as they capture 24 per second.

    Hec
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  6. 12-16-2014, 08:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle P View Post
    So, photographic evidence seems okay for submission as long as the peer-review process deems it acceptable?

    I honestly don't have a problem with that as long as they can provide multiple photos, with the a picture of the console it was used on as well.
    Right, in theory you can submit whatever you want for proof. Doesn't mean it will get voted in by the community. Me personally, I will never give approval to a submission that doesn't have video evidence of a submission in its entirety.
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/CraigARG
    MAME World Records channel: http://www.youtube.com/MAMEWorldRecords
  7. 12-16-2014, 09:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by d3scride View Post
    Me personally, I will never give approval to a submission that doesn't have video evidence of a submission in its entirety.
    Same here, and I think the majority here would agree. Nobody in their right mind would vote in favor of a score that has no (or only partial) video evidence, regardless of what a picture shows or a third party "referee" says.
  8. 12-16-2014, 06:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I will never validate one either as far as peer contributions go.
    Quote Originally Posted by d3scride
    Me personally, I will never give approval to a submission that doesn't have video evidence of a submission in its entirety.
    Quote Originally Posted by pat33999
    Nobody in their right mind would vote in favor of a score that has no (or only partial) video evidence, regardless of what a picture shows or a third party "referee" says.
    Then here's an actual scenario that I'd like to get your opinions on: the TGTS Joust Doubles score achieved by myself and John McAllister at last year's Kong Off. The score was verified by the Twin Galaxies owners at the time and witnessed live by several people including Lonnie MacDonald who is a top contender on the game. We were announced as the new record holders and paid the bounty for breaking a world record at the event. I do have pictures of the final score but unfortunately there is no video of the game since we were actually just playing for fun (ie, we did not plan in advance to go after the record...it just "happened"). The only reason it is not currently on the scoreboard is because of internal issues with the transfer of ownership of Twin Galaxies. According to Jace, he never received any of the scores that were achieved at the Kong Off 3.
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  9. 12-16-2014, 06:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dbh View Post
    Then here's an actual scenario that I'd like to get your opinions on: the TGTS Joust Doubles score achieved by myself and John McAllister at last year's Kong Off. The score was verified by the Twin Galaxies owners at the time and witnessed live by several people including Lonnie MacDonald who is a top contender on the game. We were announced as the new record holders and paid the bounty for breaking a world record at the event. I do have pictures of the final score but unfortunately there is no video of the game since we were actually just playing for fun (ie, we did not plan in advance to go after the record...it just "happened"). The only reason it is not currently on the scoreboard is because of internal issues with the transfer of ownership of Twin Galaxies. According to Jace, he never received any of the scores that were achieved at the Kong Off 3.
    This is an excellent example of why I think the community score verification idea is going to be a complete disaster in the long run. This is the same community that swore several years ago that all future submissions would have to have video or no one in the future would believe them, then did a complete 180 when the first Kong Off got them all excited and they suddenly, and very rudely, starting insisting that video didn't mean ****. "Do it live in front of your peers in a noisy arcade or you can't do it." Yes, I'm quite certain I read that sentiment many times. Now we're back to full video or GTFO. Guess the next Kong Off is a complete waste of time now, eh?

    This community is full of flip-flopping hypocrites who love to shoot their mouths off without thinking things through. It's amazing to me that so many people think things will be perfect when "the people" are able to decide what's a legit score and what isn't. I see plenty of ignorance running rampant in the competitive gaming community. Now the inmates are being handed the keys to the asylum.

    Many of you say you don't trust referees? I'm saying I DON'T TRUST YOU.

    I think I'm done here. I don't feel the need to submit scores to a scoreboard that is encouraging witch hunts and a mob mentality. It's become clear to me that Twin Galaxies really died in 2009 when Walter Day sold it and "retired" (the first time). R.I.P. TG 1981-2009. It was fun while it lasted.
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  10. 12-16-2014, 08:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dbh View Post
    Then here's an actual scenario that I'd like to get your opinions on: the TGTS Joust Doubles score achieved by myself and John McAllister at last year's Kong Off. The score was verified by the Twin Galaxies owners at the time and witnessed live by several people including Lonnie MacDonald who is a top contender on the game. We were announced as the new record holders and paid the bounty for breaking a world record at the event. I do have pictures of the final score but unfortunately there is no video of the game since we were actually just playing for fun (ie, we did not plan in advance to go after the record...it just "happened"). The only reason it is not currently on the scoreboard is because of internal issues with the transfer of ownership of Twin Galaxies. According to Jace, he never received any of the scores that were achieved at the Kong Off 3.
    Yeah that's a tough spot Don. I was at KO3 and remember seeing some postings about several scores that were achieved. I feel like situations like this are pretty rare, and although I feel like somewhat of a hypocrite, I would probably vote it as legit based on your reputation, vouching, past postings, etc. That being said, going forward I feel like it's going to be pretty tough to get a score to pass without video.
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/CraigARG
    MAME World Records channel: http://www.youtube.com/MAMEWorldRecords
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