Nintendo Entertainment System - Lifeforce - NTSC - Points - 12235790 - Glen Jr.

Is the performance claim below valid?

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This poll is closed
  1. 01-07-2015, 04:27 PM
    I have finished watching the entirety of Glen's run and have quite a lot of data to share. Before I get to that there are two things to address that could make the rest of this post irrelevant, so let's get through them up front. You will see many links in this post, and they all lead directly to the sections/scores/timestamps that are being discussed.

    1) Console Flash vs. Console-on-Camera

    There has been discussion in this thread, other threads, and on other sites about whether a console flash is adequate for a recording or whether the console should be shown on screen. Glen does not show his console, but there are four separate console flashes.

    Console Flash #1



    In my experience with consoles and console emulators, the console flash is an acceptable sign of original hardware. I would, however, consider showing the console on camera to be significantly stronger evidence.

    My opinion: Console flash is acceptable, but not ideal.

    2) Final Boss Bump Back

    This is a much more important issue for this particular submission and should be considered by EVERYONE, even if you're just skimming this thread.

    According to the Special Rules for this game: "Your scoring attempts ends when either lose your last life OR if you get bumped back due to NOT properly defeating the final Boss, even if by accident. [You get bumped back if you don't destroy the "Heart' of the final boss.]"

    This so-called "bump back" occurs once in Glen's run, at a game time of , and specifically this section:

    Quote Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES View Post
    As an adjudicator, you are being asked a simple question:


    Do you REASONABLY believe the score claim that has been submitted is "valid?"

    “Valid” – meaning:
    You perceive that the score is honest.
    You perceive that the score was achieved according to the specified rules.
    You perceive that the score was achieved within the intended spirit of the game.
    I perceive that this score honest and that it was achieved within the spirit of the game. However, it does violate the letter of the Special Rules. However, in that regard I believe a particular clause of the Special Rules actually violates the spirit of the game, specifically "even if by accident." One could make the argument that repeatedly getting bumped back violates the spirit of the game: the later Stages score at a higher rate and you're never actually beating the game. The flip-side is that the later Stages are more difficult. In any case, it is absolutely clear in my mind that Glen did not intend for this to happen and that he did not benefit as a result.

    I understand that rules are rules. There are many discussions going on right about what rules are appropriate and how they were handled in the past, how they should be handled now, and how they will be changed in the future.

    My opinion: I can't in good conscience vote down a score that accidentally violates a rule that I don't agree with, regardless of how that will affect my credibility (whether TG-measured or peer-measured).

    That concludes my analysis of the two major issues I see in Glen's performance. The following tables represent various milestones in the game with direct links to the Twitch highlight.

    Game Data

    Overall Statistics

    Final Score: 12,235,790
    Total Elapsed Time: 20 hours, 22 minutes, 13 seconds
    Number of Completed Loops: 44


    Millions

    Average Elapsed Time Per Million Points: 1 hour, 39 minutes, 47 seconds

    Million #
    Total Time
    Million Time

    19:57:29
    01:51:48


    Time

    Average Points Per Hour: 601,085

    Hour #
    Total Score
    Hour Score

    12,021,700
    556,290


    Loops

    I considered a loop to be finished when the green planet appeared on screen. All times are based on that.

    Average Elapsed Time Per Loop: 27 minutes, 33 seconds
    Average Points Scored Per Loop: 276,738


    Loop #
    Total Score
    Total Time
    Loop Score
    Loop Time

    12,176,490
    20:12:04
    282,690
    00:25:57


    Breaks

    Glen did get up and stretch several times, so I have included that as break time. Since it was hard to tell the exact moment Glen set down his controller, I have also included the amount of time where he is clearly off-camera.

    Overall Break Time: 16 minutes, 13 seconds (1.33% of Total Game Time)
    Average Break Time: 2 minutes, 2 seconds

    Overall Off-Camera Time: 14 minutes, 14 seconds (1.16% of Total Game Time)
    Average Off-Camera Time: 1 minute, 47 seconds


    Break #
    Start
    Off Camera
    On Camera
    End
    Total Break
    Total Off Camera

    16:25:29
    16:25:44
    16:28:40
    16:28:48
    3:19
    2:56


    Other Sections To Note


    • Twitch-side lag and artifacts in video. Last about two minutes, from during a break.
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  2. 01-07-2015, 05:06 PM
    Great analysis Xenia! I agree with you. Because the "bump back" wasn't used to the player's advantage, and he was "on break" at the time, I still consider it a good run.
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  3. 01-07-2015, 05:21 PM
    I can't thank you enough for this Jry. My thoughts on that rule are as follows.... Even though you can do the "bump back" during any loop it is only beneficial to someone if they can't play on the higher difficulties. When this happened in my run I was on break ( so it wasn't intentional) and I was at the highest difficulty. Any Lifeforce expert will tell you that the last 2 levels are the hardest. Also, worth noting I lost a TON of lives because this occurred during my break, The game also has limited lives that it gives you, So this accidental "bump back" did not benefit me in anyway. It actually hurt more than anything. This score could of easily been 13-14 million if that had not occurred.
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  4. 01-07-2015, 05:54 PM
    let me say this about that. Some special rules are design for the purpose of making things fair. In this case, I feel the rule was NOT violated, because it says "Your scoring attempts ends when either lose your last life OR if you get bumped back due to NOT properly defeating the final Boss, even if by accident. [You get bumped back if you don't destroy the "Heart' of the final boss.]"

    Okay, more importantly then the by accident part is " due to NOT properly defeating the final Boss". Glen did not defeat the boss at all. he did not ATTEMPT the boss at all, he used the break sanction to leave the game. Therefore he did NOT defeat the boss improperly, he used his banked lives, in accordance wihtthe break sanction, to leave paly of the game. there fore anything that happens during that time does not count as game play, but as break time, and the player accepts responsibility only for the loss of lives/abilities due to being unattended, he does NOT have the obligation to prevent the game from executing code that it would do so normally, in winch case he would also be responsible for making sure the game does not calculate any points while he is gone.

    In other other words, to enforce the rule invalidates the break policy in its entirety, not as a special case. Special rules are always considered game specific, and general sanctions(aka allowances for normally not allowed activity) have ALWAYS overridden such things.

    This brings another issue, I don't have time to watch 20+ hour videos and comb them for everything, however I see console flash, I hear an nes controller clicking, and I;m seeing things that can;tappen in an emulator. Also looking the video quality, look at how crisp but not voerly sharp it is. Generally speaking, emulated stuff ported to a CRT loks like either extermely sharp or like garbage.

    Also let's keep in mind, that most real competitors hate emulators, I would never take a serious run on an emu unless I can't get my hands on a console. So I'm more for an innocent until proven guilty mind set on original equipment, versus proof positive original console. but then again I like direct feed.
    Please join: International Classic Gaming Federation and GU

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    "I say, I say, figures every time I add 2 and 2 I get a four legged smart aleck machine"

    Max At Once WR's: 30 2/5/09

    Zelda E2Q Progress: 75%
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  5. 01-07-2015, 08:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    I can't thank you enough for this Jry. My thoughts on that rule are as follows.... Even though you can do the "bump back" during any loop it is only beneficial to someone if they can't play on the higher difficulties. When this happened in my run I was on break ( so it wasn't intentional) and I was at the highest difficulty. Any Lifeforce expert will tell you that the last 2 levels are the hardest. Also, worth noting I lost a TON of lives because this occurred during my break, The game also has limited lives that it gives you, So this accidental "bump back" did not benefit me in anyway. It actually hurt more than anything. This score could of easily been 13-14 million if that had not occurred.

    Maybe you shouldn't take any breaks. Slacker.
  6. 01-10-2015, 01:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Didn't take any naps or paused. The most I did was just get up outta my seat and walk around the room a little to stretch. The game was left unpaused during this time and I lost lives while stretching.
    I was too. I just play other game with no pausing, and no continues on Wii. At least I already play too, when I was not tired.
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  7. 01-10-2015, 07:28 AM
    Great analysis Jry.
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

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  8. 01-10-2015, 08:42 AM
    Jry is the man.
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