Arcade - Mappy - Points - 2,313,890 - mike kasper

Is the performance claim below valid?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 09-10-2015, 05:54 AM
    Accept.

    JROK is the business name of an English chap named James Rowan who resides in sunny SoCal. He develops all kinds of arcade goodness. What Robert references is the slang name given to all of his field programmable gate array pcbs which do NOT include anything which plays Mappy.

    Vote with confidence.
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    TG employee (82-84)
    robotron2084guidebook.com/
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  2. 09-10-2015, 07:02 AM
    Definitely would be an easy reject under old TG but I'm not interested in debating whether Arcade modifications are permitted. Abstain.
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
  3. 09-10-2015, 07:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    Definitely would be an easy reject under old TG but I'm not interested in debating whether Arcade modifications are permitted. Abstain.
    Yah that is probably an old rule that is antiquated since these games are getting on toward 35 years soon.
    Most arcade games that still run are in hands of the collector community which focuses on preservation.
    And you will find that due to age, supply, and functionality that the original pcbs for many games have hybrid stuff assimilated into them.
    Things as simple as different ram chip models, or different resistor array packs, up to completely different battery mods for lithium vs nicad or in some cases nvram mods which are newer technology. Or you even have some makers who had suicide features to kill the boards and those things have to be overridden with different than original electronic fixes.

    The fact that people still make room for original arcade games and that they still work is a miracle in and of itself.
    Are you inspired to find the joy in gaming?

    TG employee (82-84)
    robotron2084guidebook.com/
  4. 09-10-2015, 07:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    Definitely would be an easy reject under old TG but I'm not interested in debating whether Arcade modifications are permitted. Abstain.
    Will any modification or extension influence the board gameplay not to e like the original ROM
    streaming mspacman normal and turbo speed at: https://www.twitch.tv/francoisadt

    Francois du Toit
  5. 09-10-2015, 08:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by francoisadt View Post
    Will any modification or extension influence the board gameplay not to e like the original ROM
    My personal opinion which i am using to vote is no it does not influence it especially in a long game like this.

    Similar to how free play settings on joust defender and robo do not affect the gameplay from a technical or programming viewpoint.. But the old TG rules state arcade freeplay is not allowed so I choose not to make waves and respect it even when based purely on best practice superstition.
    Are you inspired to find the joy in gaming?

    TG employee (82-84)
    robotron2084guidebook.com/
  6. 09-10-2015, 08:25 AM
    A lot of the old rules were based on ignorance. We now have a very deep technical knowledge of how these things work. The code for most of these save kits are readily available to be scrutinized as well as video. There are cases when kits DO make a difference, some MS PacMan kits mess with ghost behavior but in these cases its quite easy for an expert player to notice and duplicate. In this day and age, as Mark pointed out, very very few games are going to be 100% original.
  7. 09-10-2015, 09:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoundrl View Post
    A lot of the old rules were based on ignorance. We now have a very deep technical knowledge of how these things work. The code for most of these save kits are readily available to be scrutinized as well as video. There are cases when kits DO make a difference, some MS PacMan kits mess with ghost behavior but in these cases its quite easy for an expert player to notice and duplicate. In this day and age, as Mark pointed out, very very few games are going to be 100% original.
    Thanks very much, I can now vote with confidence an ACCEPTED vote because this add-on Kit does effect the game behavior but only add in saving the high score. Its merely an outflow of information (a read) from the PCB and no writing to the direct memory of the game itself.

    Regards
    Francois du Toit


    .
    streaming mspacman normal and turbo speed at: https://www.twitch.tv/francoisadt

    Francois du Toit
  8. 09-10-2015, 03:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoundrl View Post
    A lot of the old rules were based on ignorance. We now have a very deep technical knowledge of how these things work.


    RTM REPLY - thank you to everyone who replied about "JROK", something I admittedly only heard of but was unfamiliar about.

    As for the gamer who I am quoting above, before you make such a grandiose statement you should better understand the full scope of ALL the decisions made years back, and not just the one or two in question.

    Case in point was a submission on the Scott Brassington revision 2 boardset of "Asteroids". The gamer in question, without TG Board approval, claimed that Walter gave this the thumbs up over a year before the submission itself. Problem is Walter was never fully made aware of the details of this boardset, and then-policy was original arcade ONLY with the sole exception of TG-accepted "hacks" (i.e. "Super Missile Attack", etc)

    The programmer allowed for the game to have a higher roll-over point. The PROBLEM was that the programmer admitted that the presence of the extra digits had "an impact" on the gameplay speed due to the extra on-screen graphic presence, and his solution was to do something to alter the game speed accordingly.

    We at TG had NO way to quantify or test whether this "correction" was accurate or not, and the decision of that time, whether today's gamers like it or not, was to keep the TG policy pure, and so the submission was rejected.

    To the gamer I have quoted...once again, you may not like some of the decisions of TG-of-old, but before you universally pan them, know what you are talking about first.
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  9. 09-10-2015, 03:43 PM
    I also agree with Andrew...as part of the "old guard" of TG, my personal stance is that arcade=arcade, MAME=MAME, and then there is all other as it is needed.

    Ironically, when it came to the proposal to split the 2600 platform into original NTSC, original PAL and EMU , I fought that for a year as I did not see the need to do so on a 30-year old platform. And the split itself did nothing for TG. But that was a single platform split into different electrical standards and then the emulation format.

    Arcade is different. TG never split arcade 60hz from 50hz, and the co-mingling has been done for years. No one has ever complained. BUT the MAME platform clearly was not the same unlike the emulator for the 2600...some cited differences with "Pitfall" but they were disproven, and the few differences cited in "Decathlon" were nominal at best, and hardly a reason to warrant a split.

    I do not fully understand the technical nuances with JROK, but your explanations helped, thanks again. Now that JROK is a reality in the TG database, my question would be whether this performance is more suitable for the JROK platform rather than arcade...what is the "fine line" that differentiates the two ?

    The most basic point, I suppose...who and when "decided" that the purity of the arcade platform now should "make room" for these modifications ? That's like Major League Baseball changing the makeup of the ball so as to produce more Home Runs. Once rulings like this are enacted, old versus new record comparisons become apples-to-oranges. So who...and when...was such a decision made ?

    I'm not questioning the performance...from what I have seen thus far (I have to watch this one in pieces) it's a great run.
  10. 09-10-2015, 04:30 PM
    Cool Rtm, the jrok fpga is a standalone pcb which emulates the hardware and is indeed a unique platform.

    What Ken has is a high score save add-on which grabs the high score from the original game hardware and stores it long term. The original hardware is i tact and present thus it is still arcade platform.
    Some games had high score save built into the hardware like you see with Williams games as that was part of the psychology of their draw to hook people to be a daily champion. That was clearly intentional hardware engineering as part of the design plan.

    Other companies and games didnt feel the same need to engage the paying player so they let the daily high score die out when the ram powered down witb the game.
    Are you inspired to find the joy in gaming?

    TG employee (82-84)
    robotron2084guidebook.com/
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