Originally Posted by Desidious

My beef is the community members saying it's unacceptable when they only base their decision on hearsay and haven't done any research themselves to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that's it's different.

I asked any of my local friends if they have a Retron I can borrow for just Sunday and I'll run whatever experiments that I can. I know between me and Gabe, we have multiple copies of a few NES games. Would this better help the situation for anyone?

What a weird coincidence. I feel as if somebody has already tried bringing light to this whole 3rd party consoles being accepted in this day and age of TG. After all, most of the original systems have been out for some 30 years now, how could it be possible that something may be able to play things exactly like they do. I really wish I knew what sarcasm was because I would be laying it on pretty thick right about now.

I have shown so much info on WHY the Analogue NT Mini should be allowable. I would be very happy to do this for other 3rd party consoles. If it can be proved they emulate, they are put into the emulation category. If they run from hardware like the original console, put it with the original tracks. It's coming though folks. 3rd party systems that can be proven to run exactly like their "original" brother consoles will be accepted eventually.

I also agree with Han. I feel like discussing this is just a waste of time. Jace has not stated anything about even allowing them to be mixed with original consoles, only that they get their own platform. Which has already been pointed out somewhere in this thread that it would just create so much more clutter for no reason. I really think Jace, the TG staff, and the community need to have a big pow wow about these consoles. I'm not talking if they should be allowed/not allowed and that's it. I'm saying, go through each one, prove whether it's hardware or emulation driven, and put them into their respective categories. If somebody wants to go through the effort of proving a 3rd party console should be legit with evidence(hmm hmmm, myself and the Analogue NT Mini) I say hear them out and go from there. There needs to be a place for it though in the forums. Solely for adding/removing consoles, types of controllers, etc...

By the way, there is one thing that does bother me that no one, even Jace, hasn't commented on yet and it's driving me nuts. And I know it has been read by many people. How is the Super Game Boy allowed to be an acceptable device to play Game Boy games on when it actually plays the game slightly faster? PLEASE SOMEONE COMMENT ON THIS IF YOU KNOW THE ANSWER OR HAVE ANY INPUT. End capslock.

P.S. You can either go ahead and find the Super Game Boy talk in my thread about the Analogue NT Mini rant, or go ahead and read it for yourself on wiki about how the Super Game Boy doesn't play the games correctly...the Super Game Boy 2 does though. Anyways, I'm all for the Retron being investigated and added to the TG platforms as either an acceptable NES platform or an NES EMU platform. Start digging Chris Zeglen on the Retron's hardware.

So I knew I read this somewhere about a year ago and I just reconfirmed what I read. Sorry ****, but the Hyperkin Retron 5 does EMULATE the hardware of all of the systems included in it. So this run is therefore a NO from me for this platform. If you submit it under SNES EMU, I would vote yes.

As to the Hyperkin Retron 5, there are many reviews done on the system that state clearly that it emulates. I haven't found any hardware facts other than youtube videos which you can all search yourselves. So IMO, the Hyperkin Retron 5 should be placed in the EMU for all platforms. Again, I do not know if they emulate perfectly. Since TG itself hasn't even come close to deciding what official emulator should be used for each platform (if it has, I haven't seen anything posted officially by TG regarding the matter...hint hint) that's as far as I can go with this.

Let me sum up. Buttercup is marry Humperdinck in little less than half an hour. So all we have to do is get in, break up the wedding, steal the princess, make our escape... after I kill Count Rugen.

Soooooo, this run is a NO vote from me based on wrong platform submitted under. It should be submitted under SNES EMU. ****, no hard feelings. I've still got a few Slalom runs I did on my Analogue NT Mini still being voted on that where records. Lucky for me, I was able to beat them all so it doesn't much matter now, but I'm still pushing for the Analogue to be under the NES platform as an equal. I'm on your side and in the same boat and know how infuriating this probably is. Guess your just going to have to beat this score like I did with all mine. Give a big middle finger to me and everybody else when you do, haha.

All Retron 5 submissions should be done under EMU for their respective platforms. See how easy this is people? Find a console, get the info, present it, move on to the next. Really, there should be any argument over it either. The information is out there and we can all look it up. Now if we can just get by the nostalgia hurdle and group these things together under the original systems platforms instead of creating new ones...that's going to be tough.

That very first line was "Sorry, 8.b.i.t." For some reason **** is blocked, haha.

Out of curiosity, why aren't emulators allowed?

Originally Posted by 8 Bit

Out of curiosity, why aren't emulators allowed?

Emulators are allowed. They have their own tracks, usually designated EMU.

Being compared to isn't the same though. You can compare Jordan vs Lebron all you want, they aren't the same. Or who is better, Joe Montana or Tom Brady...and how does that argument usually end? No one budging on who they favor. I don't want my scores being compared to an NES players scores but still end up being seen differently because I played it on a more advanced piece of hardware built to do exactly the same thing.

These are pieces of hardware. You can program ANY hardware to be exactly like something else and it will be exactly that. A perfect, flawless replica of the original run by hardware. If it's matching the original consoles performance, it shouldn't be allowed. If a software program is being used to emulate, then it goes in EMU. Why do you think I have such a huge issue with the Super Game Boy when I discovered how it actually works? It doesn't play like a Game Boy at all. It plays the games faster. I'll tel you what, if I ever want to do a speed run on a Game Boy game, I know what I'm playing it on. So I ask, how can the Super Game Boy play differently than the original but still be treated and accepted like a Game Boy.....AHHHHHHHH this drives me nuts and still nobody has replied about it, haha. I don't care if was made by Nintendo either. It doesn't play like the original, it's not acceptable. Analogue NT Mini, and I'm sure several other 3rd party consoles play exactly like the original, it should acceptable. That's my argument and it keeps getting overlooked for some reason. Not giving you crap DaddyG, just trying to explain in detail how we are literally having the Super Game Boy be allowed as an acceptable device to play Game Boy games and submit, when it in fact doesn't actually play them properly. So far only the Analogue NT Mini has been proven to be identical to the NES, but it's not allowed. Does anybody see the irony in that?

Damn it, here we go. How is it you can play any Game Boy game on any Game Boy console and have it accepted? Playing an SP is allowed, not original hardware and way more advanced, but it plays exactly like it so it's OK......yada yada yada. I've said all of this like 5 times now in numerous threads. That's all I want accepted for these new consoles. They are upgrades, have some cool options if you want to use them for personal use (not for submissions obviously) and they hook up to your nice fancy TVs. The Analogue Mini NT (and others when you guys find them) is to the NES what the Game Boy SP is to the Game Boy.

I also asked this question (worded differently, however) in my retroUSB AVS discussion...but the important thing to ask is this:

How many original NES consoles run at exactly the same speed compared to each other, especially after 25-30 years of use?

The difference between original Nintendo hardware and a FPGA solution like an Analogue or AVS system (aka a hardware clone) I would assume, is going to be in the same realm of accuracy, or possibly even more accurate to the way the original hardware performed when it was new. If someone wanted to test this variance, I'm sure there could be concrete results showing this. I'll search and see what I can find. If clock speeds and performance between an original NES and AVS/Analogue are shown to have less variance than 2 original consoles compared to each other, does this matter? I think so.