SNES / SFC - Donkey Kong Country Competition Pak - Highest Score - 5,777 - Chris Zeglen

Is this Performance Claim valid?

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  1. 07-08-2017, 05:40 PM
    As far as your argument for the Analogue NT Mini, I don't think it has been "overlooked". I think it has been considered and rejected. At least that is my interpretation of @Jace Hall 's statements and every other thread discussing clone systems. Every thread, every request, every wall post, etc all seems to end in the same conclusion: console submissions require original console. Not my decision, but just my interpretation of every single discussion about this issue.

    As as far as your argument for Gameboy, and Super Gameboy, I agree. I think games should be played on the system that they were designed to be played on. I would certainly support any effort you make in the future to get those guidelines changed.

    I would also also like to see console submission guidelines tighten up when it comes to controllers. (Personally I don't see this actually happening, but I can hope.) I think 3rd party, aftermarket, later generation controllers, etc should be much more scrutinized. I also think controllers should be visible during gameplay. But I digress. My point is simply that I think there are lots of areas where console submission guidelines can and should be improved. Mistakes of the past should be cleaned up, not used as excuses for future mistakes.

    Personally I like the idea of combined leaderboards. I think it is the best way to have transparency, and in the long run will probably lead to more wide acceptance of clone / 3rd party systems. Instead of keeping clone system submissions out, or keeping them to the sidelines, it brings them right in line with original hardware submissions. It allows access to leaderboards for a wider group of newcomers, etc. It removes the current barriers to entrance as the leaderboards stand now. The good thing is that it does it in a way that is transparent. I don't see a problem with that. I disagree that it is in any way similar to a subjective comparison of which basketball player is better. These are objective scores/times with concrete evidence packages. The leaderboard will show scores in their proper order, and one column will indicate which system was used.

    As it stands right now, adjudicators see a clone system and it immediately shuts down. Reject or Abstain from most adjudicators. If one gets through, it will be a target for Challenge when the new system goes live. In a combined leaderboard situation, it will hopefully allow more people to actually evaluate the gameplay in submissions and not focus so much on the hardware. Hardware will be noted, and then gameplay assessed. The more gameplay that is assessed, the more it "should" lead to an acceptance of quality 3rd party clones. (And may identify poor quality 3rd party clones as well.) The point is, at least these systems will finally get to have their gameplay evaluated as opposed to just immediately rejected.


    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Being compared to isn't the same though. You can compare Jordan vs Lebron all you want, they aren't the same. Or who is better, Joe Montana or Tom Brady...and how does that argument usually end? No one budging on who they favor. I don't want my scores being compared to an NES players scores but still end up being seen differently because I played it on a more advanced piece of hardware built to do exactly the same thing.

    These are pieces of hardware. You can program ANY hardware to be exactly like something else and it will be exactly that. A perfect, flawless replica of the original run by hardware. If it's matching the original consoles performance, it shouldn't be allowed. If a software program is being used to emulate, then it goes in EMU. Why do you think I have such a huge issue with the Super Game Boy when I discovered how it actually works? It doesn't play like a Game Boy at all. It plays the games faster. I'll tel you what, if I ever want to do a speed run on a Game Boy game, I know what I'm playing it on. So I ask, how can the Super Game Boy play differently than the original but still be treated and accepted like a Game Boy.....AHHHHHHHH this drives me nuts and still nobody has replied about it, haha. I don't care if was made by Nintendo either. It doesn't play like the original, it's not acceptable. Analogue NT Mini, and I'm sure several other 3rd party consoles play exactly like the original, it should acceptable. That's my argument and it keeps getting overlooked for some reason. Not giving you crap DaddyG, just trying to explain in detail how we are literally having the Super Game Boy be allowed as an acceptable device to play Game Boy games and submit, when it in fact doesn't actually play them properly. So far only the Analogue NT Mini has been proven to be identical to the NES, but it's not allowed. Does anybody see the irony in that?

    Damn it, here we go. How is it you can play any Game Boy game on any Game Boy console and have it accepted? Playing an SP is allowed, not original hardware and way more advanced, but it plays exactly like it so it's OK......yada yada yada. I've said all of this like 5 times now in numerous threads. That's all I want accepted for these new consoles. They are upgrades, have some cool options if you want to use them for personal use (not for submissions obviously) and they hook up to your nice fancy TVs. The Analogue Mini NT (and others when you guys find them) is to the NES what the Game Boy SP is to the Game Boy.
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  2. 07-08-2017, 08:19 PM
    All good points by you guys. I would be shocked if 2 NES consoles from the same production year didn't run the same. I wouldn't be shocked if say a 1985 NES ran very, very slightly different than say one of the latest released NES before cancellation. I don't know if Nintendo still made them using all the exact same parts or not which is why bring it up. Boy, wouldn't that put a huge damper on submissions if they ran differently, haha. As for 3rd party consoles, I am pulling for them to be equals as their original counterparts, but only if they run exactly as the original. If they play slightly faster or slower, I wouldn't want them to considered on the original consoles platform. Hence, my Super Game Boy argument.

    Glasses, I didn't quite get my point across with the whole basketball argument. That's my bad on that. I guess my feelings on showing what people used to submit their scores will always have a biased opinion towards the guy who used the original system (or controllers, which I completely agree with you 100% in that matter). If somebody sees a score for Tetris played on the NES, and then somebody sees a higher score for Tetris played on a 3rd party console, I feel like the NES submission will always "trump" the other submissions.

    I've been saying it for awhile now and in many threads, I really wish TG would make a list of what is allowed/not allowed on each platform. Basically, do you have to show console/game, what controllers are allowed to be used on the console, is an INP file required, etc...There are to many variables right now and it's impossible for anybody who has joined in the new TG era to know them. Like the Sega controller being an allowable controller on the Atari what evers. I also wish that the recording requirements would just be blunt instead of vague. It basically says, we don't care how you record or what you show, the more the better though would be smart. Why not just make it a rule. You must have a start up and you must show the console either in the video, or by photo if using capture card device. You must show what controller you are using and so on. They are so vague. I think we all understand what to look for, but it would just be so much easier just to make it a rule.

    After all, leniency on many things in TG is why we have people like me arguing why 3rd party consoles should be allowed. I've seen all these other things allowed (Super Game Boy) that shouldn't be, why not allow these things that are exactly like these other things in as well? It's a process. I'm curious to what the new layout will be for the platforms. I'd be even more shocked if any 3rd party console is including from the get go though.
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  3. 07-10-2017, 09:32 PM
    Love it.

    Although I say no dice on this one because it is in fact emulated I think it is funny that no one comes to show a video of the difference between the Retcon and a SNES. All the way at the top and ignored because everyone at TG shuts down everything down because someone else does.

    And I don't disagree. Sometimes these things should be shut down. Still, it is humorous that no one could come up with any evidence on why these decisions are made.

    Then again, I'm for the Mini NT...
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  4. 07-10-2017, 09:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Love it.

    Although I say no dice on this one because it is in fact emulated I think it is funny that no one comes to show a video of the difference between the Retcon and a SNES. All the way at the top and ignored because everyone at TG shuts down everything down because someone else does.

    And I don't disagree. Sometimes these things should be shut down. Still, it is humorous that no one could come up with any evidence on why these decisions are made.

    Then again, I'm for the Mini NT...
    If I had access to a Retron console I would most definitely do this but no one locally has offered to let me use one for this purpose.
    "Unable to scream
    Lips like keroscene"
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  5. 07-14-2017, 01:45 AM
    From what I can see the Retron is just like any other ARM based device like a Raspberry Pi or android tablet running a software emulator but using legit controllers and dumping carts to ROMs on the fly.

    The game play is legit but the track is for real SNES hardware. If Retron is allowed, essentially you are also saying a Raspberry Pi running RetroArch should be allowed too.

    Gotta vote no :(
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  6. 07-14-2017, 07:36 AM
    Let's think of it in this way-

    I recently submitted a score for the game Columns on the
    Sega Genesis Collection disc for PS2.

    This is essentially a Genesis Columns rom, and the Genesis hardware is emulated by the software on the Sega Genesis Collection disc, and it is executed on a PS2.

    The game I played was Genesis Columns, exactly as if it was being played on a Sega Genesis... But it wasn't, it was being emulated on a PS2. Therefore my submission is only valid on the PS2 platform, not the Genesis platform.

    I feel this is fairly comparable to how the Retron dumps the DKC cart as a rom, then emulates SNES hardware via its own software.

    For that reason, I'm voting no.

    You played a great game though, and I would look forward to a resubmission on a SNES.
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  7. 07-14-2017, 07:38 AM
    I have no idea why my post has wonky formatting, sorry :/
  8. 07-14-2017, 03:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious View Post
    If I had access to a Retron console I would most definitely do this but no one locally has offered to let me use one for this purpose.
    Hoping to get a Mini of my own so I can do my own testing at some point.
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