Dispute: Pete Hahn - Sega Genesis / Sega Mega Drive - Thunder Force III - NTSC - Points - Mania Difficulty - Player: John Dekker - Pete Hahn

Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. Dispute: Pete Hahn - Sega Genesis / Sega Mega Drive - Thunder Force III - NTSC - Points - Mania Difficulty - Player: John Dekker - Pete Hahn

    08-18-2017, 08:30 PM
    Sega Genesis / Sega Mega Drive - Thunder Force III - NTSC - Points - Mania Difficulty
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=2650
    Rules
    Ship Speed High, Mania Game Level, Any Button Configuration [No Continues Allowed!]
    Special Rules: None
    Player Name
    John Dekker
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    Referee
    Verification Date
    2004-06-11
    Disputed Score
    7,961,680 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    GGA HAN
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    Not enough points exist in the game to be able to achieve this score. I will link my previously accepted score and also provide a youtube video of a deathless/no miss run on "Mania" difficulty for comparison.

    Accepted "Mania" score of 6,701,900: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/166265

    Youtube (this is my score, and is the highest I can find video proof of online):


    This run is pretty close to highest points available, the only 2 higher runs with any available verification can be found on the shmups.system11.org forums:

    http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27396

    The highest Mania mode score posted is 6,807,450. This score is the best found anywhere on the internet. Although I would doubt the score without seeing video proof, I would say score of 6,86X,XXX is in the realm of possibility. This is due to the 5 X multiplier for all bonuses Mania mode provides, including lives which are normally 10k in bonus points at the end of the game. You would have to beat the game with 26 extra lives in reserve and "milk" every enemy flawlessly.
    @Jonathan Town made remarks in my "Normal" difficulty submission about this "Mania" mode score, which I will link here:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...l=1#post842704

    I view him as an expert at this game, and I believe he would also state this score is invalid as I have.

    Thanks for your consideration.
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  2. 08-19-2017, 03:49 AM
    Hi - I agree with everything Pete has written here - it seems utterly impossible to get another million points, especially when you also take into account that even on the shmup forums nobody as ever broken into a 7 million score, let alone almost 8 million which is the score under dispute. I would encourage this dispute to be taken seriously as I'd like to compete in this score thread but at the moment the highest score seems like either a cheat score or perhaps recorded incorrectly, so I haven't seen it worthwhile chasing after what appears to be an incorrect high score.

    If anyone thinks this score to be real, I would only believe it via video evidence, personally.

    Regards

    Jonathan
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  3. 08-19-2017, 10:13 AM
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/CraigARG
    MAME World Records channel: http://www.youtube.com/MAMEWorldRecords
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  4. 09-04-2017, 01:45 AM
    Any other questions or input from anyone on this dispute?

    Bumping so more people can hopefully see this and vote or chime in.
  5. 09-04-2017, 06:22 AM
    The verification date of this score is one I keep seeing. It seems many scores were entered into the database on this day. Do any of our sprightly old-timers recall anything about what happened on 2004-6-11?
  6. 09-28-2017, 04:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    The verification date of this score is one I keep seeing. It seems many scores were entered into the database on this day. Do any of our sprightly old-timers recall anything about what happened on 2004-6-11?
    Maybe some scores all transferred over from an old version of the database on that date?

    In any case, I was looking for more evidence to prove this score is impossible, and I came across this:

    http://forum.shmup.com/viewtopic.php...2906&start=480

    While it is in French, google translate does a decent job of getting the point across. The top French players all questioned this score, and assumed it was a typo. Interestingly, they also say the score as written is impossible. All "Mania" difficulty scores end in 00 or 50, which I assume is due to enemy point values never being anything other than multiples of 50. I totally missed this in my search for evidence, and this holds true with all the Mania scores on the shmups forum and also on the the French site.
  7. 09-28-2017, 04:20 PM
    The French Thunderforce 3 leaderboard didn't link correctly in my previous post:

    http://forum.shmup.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16621
  8. 09-29-2017, 01:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by GGA HAN View Post
    All "Mania" difficulty scores end in 00 or 50, which I assume is due to enemy point values never being anything other than multiples of 50.
    Your own video above shows scoring other than x00 and x50
  9. 09-29-2017, 01:19 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138 View Post
    Your own video above shows scoring other than x00 and x50
    can you tell me about what time on the video? Not sure if the 00 and 50 are from ending bonuses being added or just enemy values being 00 or 50
  10. 09-29-2017, 01:21 PM
    Ah, I see it now, never mind!

    I think the 00 or 50 ending has to do with the endgame multiplier - whatever your score is at the end of the game, being set to "Mania" difficulty multiplies your score by 5.
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