Dispute: Dick Moreland - Atari 2600 / VCS - Dragster - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 05.51

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 01-22-2018, 07:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tompa View Post
    "Less than 180 days" starting from September 2nd, making it before March 1st.
    I was never clear on what day in September the claim was made. thanks!
  2. 01-22-2018, 07:25 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tompa View Post
    "Less than 180 days" starting from September 2nd, making it before March 1st.
    Though, at this point I won't be at all surprised if the decision is "I have decided we need more testing" or some other non-decision
    Likes DadsGlasses, CWK, TG Fan, lennondrops liked this post
  3. 01-22-2018, 08:21 AM
    To sum up:
    Ben did not specify the "what" that is still outstanding or "what" tests one still need to do to conclude a final complete analysis.
    @jace: Can you get a full complete list of these "whats still do" from him. That means all the items or things or aspects or test cases Ben feels still need to happen to confidently say all have been done to test the game under all possible conditions or all experimental environmental scenarios and user input cases?

    Now it is not known how many hypothesises have not been covered. Maybe there exist uncovered ones?
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  4. 01-22-2018, 09:16 AM
    He still needs to test the prototype...you know, the one that acts differently than the one Ben was testing...that way a new track can be made to accommodate Todd's score
  5. 01-22-2018, 09:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by CWK View Post
    He still needs to test the prototype...you know, the one that acts differently than the one Ben was testing...that way a new track can be made to accommodate Todd's score
    And only Todd's score. All others that are found to be removable don't get the new track luxury.
    Likes CWK liked this post
  6. 01-22-2018, 09:59 AM
    If it really is your opinion that someone who has reviewed your model
    He has only "reviewed" the model insofar as was required to debug his device. He has not made any claims or indications of attempting to understand the mechanics or bases for claims based on the model.

    spoken with you about it
    We have corresponded for the purposes of debugging his device. He made no attempts to fully understand the gameplay mechanics, and even now still has a somewhat flawed understanding of how some mechanics operate. This isn't a dig at him, it's just not something that matters for his interests and tasking enough to get straight.

    examined this dispute thread
    Which means what, exactly? He noted a thread exists? Or are you asserting that because he can view the thread at any time, we can reasonably assume that he has fully read every post? I have full access to legalwiki, but that doesn't mean in the least that I know or understand case law.

    spoke with Todd Rogers
    Something the rest of this thread has been trying to do for months! Apparently it takes a fully-funded trip for him to discuss Dragster, based on available sample points.

    run personal tests
    ... that you are paying him to run.

    and built and Atari analyzer for the purpose of examining Dragster
    ... also that you paid him to build.

    is NOT considered reasonably informed, and therefore their opinion should not be reasonably considered
    I made no claims whatsoever that his opinion should be disregarded. My entire point in each of the past several posts is that you are assigning his opinion undue weight based on your own skewed interpretation and assumptions about his accumulated knowledge. It was never his job to understand all or even some aspects of the dispute, so don't treat his statements as if they carry such weight. He was not hired to be a dispute arbiter, so stop deferring to his lone statement as reasoning for spending additional resources and not rendering a decision.

    Speaking of:

    What is inadequate about the current body of knowledge in this dispute that leaves you incapable of rendering a decision?
    Thanks DadsGlasses, Snazzavich thanked this post
  7. 01-22-2018, 11:00 AM
    Have we gotten to the point yet where the “circumstantial evidence” of the fake certificates has become worth investigating? Or no?
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  8. 01-22-2018, 11:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by DadsGlasses View Post
    Have we gotten to the point yet where the “circumstantial evidence” of the fake certificates has become worth investigating? Or no?
    Maybe? That's what my wife would say. Hope this helps, haha.
    Likes DadsGlasses, CWK, TG Fan, Snazzavich liked this post
  9. 01-22-2018, 11:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by CWK View Post
    He still needs to test the prototype...you know, the one that acts differently than the one Ben was testing...that way a new track can be made to accommodate Todd's score
    I don't think testing the prototype is even worth it. If, really big if, Todd did have access to a prototype and did achieve this score on it, it would prove 2 things.

    1. This score is then impossible to beat because I highly doubt a prototype cartridge is still around for any of us to play. Only way to beat this time would then for someone to dump a prototype ROM for us to play.

    2. Lets say a prototype is found and a 5.51 is possible. That's a special cartridge that one has access too. The later released version was changed and released to the public. Score would not be valid.

    Either way, this score would be removed with or without testing a prototype cartridge. Think of the prototype this way. Remember the NINTENDO CAMPUS CHALLENGE cartridge. It has a timer built in, 3 games to play, ETC. It was specially designed. Now picture one of us submitting a score playing all three games separately but using the same rules. It would never fly. Ever. Much like this prototype game. No one is playing with the same ROM. So score would be invalid...or TG could keep Todd's score and then make a track for literally every single score other than Todd's that had to use a publicly released copy. Again, score would be removed. So no need to test the prototype.
  10. 01-22-2018, 11:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    2. Lets say a prototype is found and a 5.51 is possible. That's a special cartridge that one has access too. The later released version was changed and released to the public. Score would not be valid.
    I would bet my house that if this happened, the score would be moved to a new track created just for this. It’s not a great house.
    Likes CWK liked this post
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