Dispute: Dick Moreland - Atari 2600 / VCS - Dragster - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 05.51

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 12-06-2017, 06:45 AM
    A taste of things to come...
  2. 12-07-2017, 12:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by TWIN GALAXIES View Post
    As part of our ongoing due diligence into this dispute, we required Todd Rogers to produce an official Activision Dragster Certificate that he should have received for his time of 5.51 - since it was Activision who verified the actual performance back in 1982 and not Twin Galaxies specifically.

    Todd provided certificates for the times of 5.61 (Cert #1556), 5.57 (Cert #2786), and 5.51(Cert #3476).

    We are including a scanned copy of the 5.51 certificate here in the dispute thread for the purpose of permanent public record.
    @TWIN GALAXIES or Dave Hawksett, was the 5.51 certificate sent to TG as a .png file, or did you digitize the image from a paper copy that was sent in? If received as a .png file, did TG post a duplicate copy on page 168, or did TG modify the original copy for posting purposes (eg. reduced image size, etc)?
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  3. 12-07-2017, 01:56 PM
    I JJT Johnny Think Todd Rogers Exaggerated a Lot of Scores and Times to Be 1st & Maxed Out Mostly Atari 2600 Video Games that
    Are in Being Disputed Presently on Twin Galaxy
    The Definition of Lying and Deception
    First published Thu Feb 21, 2008; substantive revision Fri Dec 25, 2015

    The dictionary definition of lying is “to make a false statement with the intention to deceive”

    Cheating is the receiving of a reward for ability or finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation by dishonest means. It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain unfair advantage in a competitive situation. This broad definition will necessarily include acts of bribery, cronyism, nepotism, sleaze and any situation where individuals are given preference using inappropriate criteria.[1] The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating conduct a potentially subjective process. Cheating can refer specifically to marital infidelity. Someone who is known for cheating is referred to as a cheat in British English, and a cheater in American English. A person described as a "cheat" doesn't necessarily cheat all the time, but rather, relies on unfair tactics to the point of acquiring a reputation for it

    past tense: exaggerated; past participle: exaggerated

    represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is.
    "they were apt to exaggerate any aches and pains"
    synonyms: overstate, overemphasize, overestimate, magnify, amplify, aggrandize, inflate; More

    enlarged or altered beyond normal or due proportions.

    verb (used with object), exaggerated, exaggerating.
    to magnify beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately:
    to exaggerate the difficulties of a situation.
    to increase or enlarge abnormally:
    Those shoes exaggerate the size of my feet.
    verb (used without object), exaggerated, exaggerating.
    to employ exaggeration, as in speech or writing:
    a person who is always exaggerating.

    Todd Rogers Disputed Video Game Submissions
    1. Dispute: Dick Moreland - Atari 2600 / VCS - Dragster - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 05.51
    2. Dispute: John McAllister - Atari 2600 / VCS - Skiing - NTSC - Game 03, Difficulty BB [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 27.51

    3. Dispute: Marc Cohen - Atari 2600 / VCS - Slot Machine - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 9,999

    4. Dispute: Clay Karczewski - TurboGrafx-16 - The Legendary Axe - Points - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 99,999,990
    5. Dispute: Marc Cohen - Atari 2600 / VCS - Taz - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 999,900
    6. Dispute: Marc Cohen - Atari 2600 / VCS - Wabbit - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 1,698
    7. Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Gorf - Points [3 Ships] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 653,990
    8. Dispute: John McAllister - Atari 2600 / VCS - Sub-Scan - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 1,012,000

  4. 12-08-2017, 11:09 AM
    Pending an update from @TWIN GALAXIES about the "chain of custody" of Todd's 5.51 certificate, I'll double-underline the caveat my additional analysis of the certificate, as well as my working hypothesis, is by definition tentative and is subject to change if new information comes to light that necessitates a revision. Because it is a working hypothesis, I invite everyone to walk through my methodology as part of their own independent review and analysis so they can share their own conclusions, which in turn may highlight errors or oversights in my own work so it can be corrected.

    To begin, click the link for the 35th Anniversary Dragster video:

    Fast forward to the 1:52 mark, pause, and grab a screenshot of the certificate; please do this a second time at the 2 minute mark (or thereabouts). Ideally, try to grab a full-screen version, although I don't know how to do that on a PC.

    Next, download a local copy of the 5.51 certificate:

    I'll give members who wish to participate some time to accomplish these steps, and I'll post a follow-up later this afternoon/evening with further information about my interim analysis.
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  5. 12-08-2017, 11:12 AM
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  6. 12-08-2017, 03:25 PM
    Not sure this is entirely what The_Evener is getting at, but here's a few things.

    The 5.64 document in the video and the 5.51 allegedly obtained by Twin Galaxies are very likely the same original image.

    I've overlaid the two and made a composite, as well as an animated gif, showing the similarities. The images are downsampled in attachments here so I've also put them on imgur for their full quality. Composite: GIF:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The differences here are pretty significant for a few reasons. Based on the other public certificates, these certificates were manually printed by Activision; the names, dates, and other custom markings often appear in different locations and with different alignments. Thus it is highly unlikely that details such as the "1st" and other markings would align so perfectly between the two certificates. Note how closely the lines match on the 5.64/5.51 - they line up perfectly, and it only takes a few wipes to remove the lines from a 5.64 and turn it into a 5.51. The last thing to note is the small "splotch" below December/September. This is consistent between the two, but is not consistent with certificates from other individuals. It was probably just from somebody accidentally touching the ink before it dried. There's no way it occurred in exactly the same way on both certificates.
  7. 12-08-2017, 03:59 PM
    Yes, Omnigamer, you've hit exactly on the points I discovered in a comparison - that the 5.51 certificate appears to be essentially a derivative image of the 5.64 certificate. The 5.64 certificate, albeit in a small jpeg form, was included on Todd's Beatthechamp website, whereas the 5.51 was an indistinguishable pinkish image.

    I basically conducted a "side by side" comparison of the images, looking to identify any unique or specific markings/defects that couldn't be accounted for as a systematic printing artefact when compared to the other certificates found on-line.

    While there are differences between the certificates, the similarities of the markings are striking, and can't reasonably be explained as an effect of both certificates being stored together, for example. Be forewarned that the markings are more faint on the lower-res screen capture of the 5.64 certificate, but are nonetheless visible.

    I've uploaded three photos that have been marked up, identifying elements that I believe illustrate that tone is basically a modified derivative of the other. I noted small imperfections found on both versions - the placement of the imperfections appear virtually the same, and are surprising to discover on two documents issued two years apart. Even without a high res version of the 5.64 certificate to use instead of the screen capture, the fact that an ink blotch exists in more or less the same form and location would be difficult to account for by explanation of a dual accident affecting two different certificates in exactly the same way.

    Additional analysis of the 5.51 certificate - I didn't initially examine the portions of the certificate "zoomed in," but last night when I noticed that if you zoom in at "September," you'll probably notice what looks like a distinct rectangular shape, as if someone used the "rectangle" select tool to copy/paste the September name. I don't think this can be accounted for as an artefact from the scan of a hardcopy certificate.

    Another element - the use of "Gothic Script" Arabic numbers for a certificate assigned in September 1982 doesn't accord with an examination of the font choice found on the other three 1982-issued certificates found on line. They all reflect a more common "standard" looking number font, both for the assigned time and the date (day and last digit of the year). However, the Gothic Script is used on Todd's December 1980 certificate - its use probably continued until sometime in 1981 until Activision opted for the more standard number style.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	45641Click image for larger version. 

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  8. 12-08-2017, 04:03 PM
    By differences between the certificates, I should clarify that, in general, artefacts found on the 5.64 certificate (such as small ink blots) are not present on the 5.51 certificate, possibly accounted for in their erasure (impartial or complete) from the hardcopy 5.64 certificate before scanning (see the example of the ink dots beside James Levy's signature).
  9. 12-08-2017, 04:06 PM
    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. 12-08-2017, 04:08 PM
    Clearly Todd was using a prototype certificate, and a programming bug in the print process generated a 5:51 which, being outside his control, makes it a legitimate time.
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