Dispute: william rosa - M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points - Player: Patrick Scott Patterson - Score: 49,300

Is this a valid dispute?

    You have no permission to view/vote this poll.
You may not vote on this poll

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. Dispute: william rosa - M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points - Player: Patrick Scott Patterson - Score: 49,300

    08-16-2017, 10:08 PM
    M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=10492
    Rules
    ROMSet: STactics
    Free Play: On
    Service Mode: Off
    Number Of Barriers: 4
    Bonus Barriers: 1
    Extended Play: On
    Special Rules: None
    Player Name
    Patrick Scott Patterson
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    INP
    Verification Date
    2008-05-09
    Disputed Score
    49,300 (Rank 2)
    Disputed By
    Snowflake
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    This is simply not possible with a verification method of INP. Even if we believe some other verification method was used, and the score is valid, then at a bare minimum the column indicating verification must be changed. The score + the verification method are unquestionably impossible.

    Discussion was already had here some time back for those who wish to familiarize themselves https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...867#post795867
    Thanks JJT_Defender thanked this post
    Likes JJT_Defender liked this post
  2. 08-16-2017, 10:18 PM
    I will attempt to summary my findings here:

    With my recent (successful) attempt at a world record for Space Tactics on M.A.M.E., I have learned some very interesting things about INP's and I would like to share that with you all and voice my concerns.

    During my practice sessions I was able to get over 300,000 points, but I found that playback of the INP file was erratic and not at all a representation of the actual game play. I tried several attempts, each with several versions of MAME. I tried WolfMAME: 0.106, 0.160, 0.166. I tried a much older versions of MAME as well (MAME 0.32) but that did not work either.

    When playing back my recorded INP, the game seemed to go off on a tangent, doing it's own thing. My inputs were useless, and the was over before getting any where near my score. In fact, the highest score I was able to create via playback was just over 20,000 points.

    I did some research and asked a few of the veteran players. What I found was that this particular ROM (spactics) has a known problem known as "de-syncing". It is not clear what causes the playback to de-sync, but it is evident in all versions of MAME. Even INP's that are posted on MARP will not playback.

    Does this matter for my score? Not really, as I provided a full video of me playing the game. I included the INP so that the keeners could open it up and check that the dip switch settings were accurate, and that an acceptable version of the ROM was being used, etc.

    Why am I bringing all this up? I am bringing this up because I care about the integrity of the scoreboard and I believe that the score I beat out of first place is invalid and should never have been entered into the system.



    There is no way that a TG referee was able to playback the INP from that submission, using WolfMAME 0.106. I do not believe that performance was reviewed via INP.

    Your friend, datagod

    ~~Raspberry Pi Enthusiast~~
  3. 08-16-2017, 11:17 PM
    When playback issues occurred in the old TG, older previously-sanctioned versions of WolfMAME were acceptable. MARP has a verified 212K on WolfMAME 0.101 - TG did have 0.101 sanctioned for a short time. There is the possibility that this score was done using 0.101 or 0.78 (another previously sanctioned WolfMAME).
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
  4. 08-16-2017, 11:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    When playback issues occurred in the old TG, older previously-sanctioned versions of WolfMAME were acceptable. MARP has a verified 212K on WolfMAME 0.101 - TG did have 0.101 sanctioned for a short time. There is the possibility that this score was done using 0.101 or 0.78 (another previously sanctioned WolfMAME).
    woudn't that still mean the row as a whole is invalid. Even if the score is valid, even if were done by INP, if it were done by a different version then shouldnt that be reflected?
    Lode Runner Champion
    Thanks datagod thanked this post
    Likes datagod liked this post
  5. 08-16-2017, 11:44 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    woudn't that still mean the row as a whole is invalid. Even if the score is valid, even if were done by INP, if it were done by a different version then shouldnt that be reflected?
    Sorry Bill, I don't know what you mean by "the row".
    Lots of 1sts to be surpassed: what are you waiting for? Play the game, submit the score...
  6. 08-16-2017, 11:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    Sorry Bill, I don't know what you mean by "the row".
    i mean in the leader board everything associated with the score. Name, score, verification method, inp version, date.

    Now i'll admit i probably wouldnt challenge something for an incorrect date, but i think if anything else is wrong we have a problem.
    Lode Runner Champion
  7. 10-16-2017, 09:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    There is no way that a TG referee was able to playback the INP from that submission, using WolfMAME 0.106. I do not believe that performance was reviewed via INP.


    RTM REPLY - while this might very well be true, I direct you to my own MARP 2nd place record on "Chiller" of 20M points.

    The INP does not play back at all, yet I did this one live in my cabin in New Hampshire in front of both then-TG senior referee Kelly Flewin and well-known arcade/MAME expert Martin Bedard. Had it not been for their watching my performance it would have never been accepted by the MARP community.

    I do not know the specifics behind Patrick's "Space Tactics" score, but it is possible that he did this live in front of a fellow TG referee. I'd explore that possibility before discounting it due to INP playback issues.

    It sucks when the INP fails playback...some of you might remember that my 505K MAME "Up'n Down" (Sega 1983) world record refused to play back properly so the record could not have been accepted by TG or by MARP for that matter. It sucks, but these things happen.
  8. 10-16-2017, 11:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - while this might very well be true, I direct you to my own MARP 2nd place record on "Chiller" of 20M points.

    The INP does not play back at all, yet I did this one live in my cabin in New Hampshire in front of both then-TG senior referee Kelly Flewin and well-known arcade/MAME expert Martin Bedard. Had it not been for their watching my performance it would have never been accepted by the MARP community.

    I do not know the specifics behind Patrick's "Space Tactics" score, but it is possible that he did this live in front of a fellow TG referee. I'd explore that possibility before discounting it due to INP playback issues.

    It sucks when the INP fails playback...some of you might remember that my 505K MAME "Up'n Down" (Sega 1983) world record refused to play back properly so the record could not have been accepted by TG or by MARP for that matter. It sucks, but these things happen.
    If it was not an INP that was reviewed, then the method of verification should be changed to Referee.
    Your friend, datagod

    ~~Raspberry Pi Enthusiast~~
  9. 10-16-2017, 03:55 PM
    Agree...if you look at my TG MAME 2nd place record (Clay apparently beat me in 2016, did not know that until now !!) it indicates "Referee" as the verification method.
    Likes datagod, CWK liked this post
  10. 11-18-2019, 03:22 PM
    inp playback for this title is broken in Mame. my submission includes INP to prove this. But I also did full video showing my score. Mister Patterson score is listed as being verified but it is impossible because INP playback does not work. it is broken. this is yet another wink-wink-nudge-nudge go ahead and verify it for me there pal.
    Your friend, datagod

    ~~Raspberry Pi Enthusiast~~
Results 1 to 10 of 50
Join us