Dispute: william rosa - M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points - Player: Patrick Scott Patterson - Score: 49,300

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  1. Dispute: william rosa - M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points - Player: Patrick Scott Patterson - Score: 49,300

    08-16-2017, 11:08 PM
    M.A.M.E. - Space Tactics - Points
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=10492
    Rules
    ROMSet: STactics
    Free Play: On
    Service Mode: Off
    Number Of Barriers: 4
    Bonus Barriers: 1
    Extended Play: On
    Special Rules: None
    Player Name
    Patrick Scott Patterson
    Original Adjudication
    N/A
    Verification Method
    INP
    Verification Date
    2008-05-09
    Disputed Score
    49,300 (Rank 2)
    Disputed By
    Snowflake
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    This is simply not possible with a verification method of INP. Even if we believe some other verification method was used, and the score is valid, then at a bare minimum the column indicating verification must be changed. The score + the verification method are unquestionably impossible.

    Discussion was already had here some time back for those who wish to familiarize themselves https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...867#post795867
  2. 08-16-2017, 11:18 PM
    I will attempt to summary my findings here:

    With my recent (successful) attempt at a world record for Space Tactics on M.A.M.E., I have learned some very interesting things about INP's and I would like to share that with you all and voice my concerns.

    During my practice sessions I was able to get over 300,000 points, but I found that playback of the INP file was erratic and not at all a representation of the actual game play. I tried several attempts, each with several versions of MAME. I tried WolfMAME: 0.106, 0.160, 0.166. I tried a much older versions of MAME as well (MAME 0.32) but that did not work either.

    When playing back my recorded INP, the game seemed to go off on a tangent, doing it's own thing. My inputs were useless, and the was over before getting any where near my score. In fact, the highest score I was able to create via playback was just over 20,000 points.

    I did some research and asked a few of the veteran players. What I found was that this particular ROM (spactics) has a known problem known as "de-syncing". It is not clear what causes the playback to de-sync, but it is evident in all versions of MAME. Even INP's that are posted on MARP will not playback.

    Does this matter for my score? Not really, as I provided a full video of me playing the game. I included the INP so that the keeners could open it up and check that the dip switch settings were accurate, and that an acceptable version of the ROM was being used, etc.

    Why am I bringing all this up? I am bringing this up because I care about the integrity of the scoreboard and I believe that the score I beat out of first place is invalid and should never have been entered into the system.



    There is no way that a TG referee was able to playback the INP from that submission, using WolfMAME 0.106. I do not believe that performance was reviewed via INP.

    RTM was right. D'ohFake and Markrappenhammer are troublemakers.
    Creator of Arcade Retro Clock


  3. 08-17-2017, 12:17 AM
    When playback issues occurred in the old TG, older previously-sanctioned versions of WolfMAME were acceptable. MARP has a verified 212K on WolfMAME 0.101 - TG did have 0.101 sanctioned for a short time. There is the possibility that this score was done using 0.101 or 0.78 (another previously sanctioned WolfMAME).
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
  4. 08-17-2017, 12:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    When playback issues occurred in the old TG, older previously-sanctioned versions of WolfMAME were acceptable. MARP has a verified 212K on WolfMAME 0.101 - TG did have 0.101 sanctioned for a short time. There is the possibility that this score was done using 0.101 or 0.78 (another previously sanctioned WolfMAME).
    woudn't that still mean the row as a whole is invalid. Even if the score is valid, even if were done by INP, if it were done by a different version then shouldnt that be reflected?
  5. 08-17-2017, 12:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    woudn't that still mean the row as a whole is invalid. Even if the score is valid, even if were done by INP, if it were done by a different version then shouldnt that be reflected?
    Sorry Bill, I don't know what you mean by "the row".
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
  6. 08-17-2017, 12:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    Sorry Bill, I don't know what you mean by "the row".
    i mean in the leader board everything associated with the score. Name, score, verification method, inp version, date.

    Now i'll admit i probably wouldnt challenge something for an incorrect date, but i think if anything else is wrong we have a problem.
  7. 08-17-2017, 02:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    i mean in the leader board everything associated with the score. Name, score, verification method, inp version, date.

    Now i'll admit i probably wouldnt challenge something for an incorrect date, but i think if anything else is wrong we have a problem.
    Ah, gotcha. The 106 may indeed be incorrect but I believe that's an assumption that the new-era TG has placed on many records by date.
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
  8. 08-17-2017, 09:25 AM
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?platformid=46 This is an example of a MAME score that shows as 106 but I'm certain was done in 78. The difference here is that it says in the rules to use a different version of MAME.
    "Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good"

    Visit my YouTube channel for videos of over 150 classic arcade games, most of which you won't see at your local arcade. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4...56xV5To9gPqsLA
    Thanks Barthax thanked this post
  9. 08-26-2017, 06:38 AM
    Just By Patricks own post on his face book wall saying a score he does not remember playing SHOULD be enough to remove it all with all of his ill entered scores
    Thanks datagod thanked this post
    Likes datagod liked this post
  10. 08-26-2017, 11:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy J. Ferretti View Post
    Just By Patricks own post on his face book wall saying a score he does not remember playing SHOULD be enough to remove it all with all of his ill entered scores
    Can't say it enough even though I completely agree with you Rudy...and everybody else that feels this way about certain players. Unless you can show hard evidence a player cheated, I do not agree with removing every single score because they person is a puke/hated/whatever you want to say about them. Some of those scores could be legit scores. If the integrity of the leader board is what you want, you must go about it by disputing all the scores and proving they aren't legit.

    Said this a few times in the last hour, haha. Now if you can provide actual evidence of cheating going on, then I'm all for every score being removed.
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