Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800


Members banned from this thread: Almighty Dreadlock


Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. 04-04-2018, 09:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    I'm not sure why it oscillates back and forth inbetween frames but I see theres 3,600 left on the clock that is being added to the current score of 707,800 at this moment at the end of the board, now add the 3,600 and the new score (and hi score) become 711,400 which makes sense. Good looking out though, I'm not sure the back and forth of the new and old score is normal though so that might be an issue for sure, especially as he might of been using the end of the board as a splice pad and was a frame off. Just speculation.


    RTM REPLY - one thing I learned years back during a score dispute...some information, when shared with the disputed gamer before resolution occurs, can backfire.

    When TG staffers were dissecting a high-profile score claim by another gamer, every time some major "hole" was found with the story of how it was achieved, the gamer in question revised the "story" to accommodate the newly discovered "hole". It reached a point where there were so many such "holes" found that the gamer in question had petitioned TG to engage in revisionism...asking TG, among other specific points, to re-state the earlier anecdote as it appeared in the 1st TG BoR to eliminate the date that the score was set as too much anecdotal and recollection evidence was compiled to render the claim seriously problematic.

    The point being, had the Board of Referees, especially those (including myself) not divulged certain analysis that we performed to the gamer in question, he would have stuck to his guns with the original "story" and it would have been far worse when juxtaposed against the collective research that we performed as opposed to comparing it's current "version" as provided by the gamer in question against our most recent findings.

    Flash forward two decades and with new information such as this coming out in this thread...part of the investigative process, of course...it potentially allows this other gamer in question, or at least his camp, to modify any supporting documentation or anecdote that they provide to TG to bolster their own side of the discussion.

    This is not to say that I am suggesting to keep such newly discovered findings under wraps, but just bear in mind that history has a way of repeating itself, and it would be...disappointing...if all the hard work done by the technical experts who have contributed to this discussion thus far was potentially undone by the very process by which this shared evidence is being presented within this thread.
    Thanks JJT_Defender thanked this post
  2. 04-04-2018, 10:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukahna View Post
    Thanks Jace. I'm downloading that video right now straight from the host (vzaar), so I can frame step through. I'm also hoping to do some deeper analysis for any frame anomalies and another look at 1-UP timings while we wait.
    No need to download. You can step thru the vzaar video with “<“ and “>” keys, just like youtube.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
  3. 04-04-2018, 10:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    In the spirit of independent verification, could you obtain from Carlos the make and model of the VCR he located that can output accurate arcade color and enter it into the dispute review? I found your discovery of B&W output from the Two-bit Converter to the VCR and the Gigabit USB surprising since it was never raised by Robert as a special consideration when setting up a capture.

    Thank you.
    When Carlos presents his findings, we expect that information to be present.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
    Thanks The Evener thanked this post
  4. 04-04-2018, 10:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    I believe the claim is centering around not so much htat billy submitted someone else's gameplay so much as billy submitted his own gameplay but then dastardly dwayne tampered with the tapes to make them look like mame. yeah, thats right, when all else fails, gear up to blame dwayne again. I expect the affidavits to be something to the effect of yet again "dwayne once asked my help on doctoring mame footage".
    We have already definitively determined that these performances are the exact unaltered performances that were submitted and used by TG refs at the time for adjudication purposes.

    There is no valid argument to be made on this particular point of concern.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
    Thanks RTM, Sqrlmonger, Rev John thanked this post
  5. 04-05-2018, 12:22 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Prophecyrob View Post
    There are too many reasons why the tapes ARE Billy’s gameplay to even start to list them.

    That would be one of the wildest claims ever.

    Joel is either gonna give sworn documents from people who apparently witnessed the play live bitd OR a sworn confession that Robert rigged the machines as MAME and Billy never knew. BOTH WHOPPING LIES BTW.
    Definitely a possibility as demonstrated by the ADMITTED fake board swap video.(Admitted after being caught, of course. Not before)

    Pay off one of the stooges to take the fall. I will be more shocked if that doesn't happen.
    Likes CWK, sprinter461 liked this post
  6. 04-05-2018, 02:12 AM
    I wanted to analyze the "prolonged 1UP" issue a little more, so I downloaded the high quality version of 1.05M from:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...129#post959129

    And I plotted the brightness of the flashing 1UP again.

    The 'speed bumps' and 'potholes' have gone away entirely because these recordings are not video of a TV playback. The 1UP flashing is extremely regular which makes it even easier to spot irregularities, and do statistics.

    Here's the chart: https://svgshare.com/i/68M.svg

    The video is encoded at 30fps, so the calculation to get the number of seconds from a frame number is:
    NumberOfSeconds = FrameNumber / 30

    Notable events:

    81050, 00:45:01
    There are quite a few "quick flashes" as seen here.

    151050, 01:23:50
    Another kind of quick flash. These are less frequent, and more subtle to look at. This one happens at the end of a pie factory board.

    194550, 01:47:32
    The prolonged flash that we first saw in Jace's review video. It's very easy to spot in the chart.

    286100, 02:38:56
    1 player start pressed

    Statistically speaking, each flash (either on or off) usually takes 7, 8, or 9 frames. To generate some counts we draw a line through the center of the plot, and anything over the line is on, and anything below is off.

    Name:  1.05M-frames-on-and-off.png
Views: 325
Size:  13.4 KB

    You can see just how much of an outlier the prolonged flash is. What's up with that? You can also see that there aren't any other really long flashes in the 1.05M recording.

    It might seem strange that we get lots of 1s and 2s, but this is what happens when the line in the plot hovers around the mean brightness for all frames.

    So far, pressing '1 player start' is the only thing I can find that affects the flashing.
    Thanks The Evener, JJT_Defender thanked this post
    Likes jimmer, Rev John, JJT_Defender liked this post
  7. 04-05-2018, 02:46 AM
    I get the Impression that all you are doing is allowing Carlos (Team Billy) to find a desperate way to replicate the girder finger (via any means), rather than the impartial view suggested.

    Suddenly it will be 'we managed to replicate it via a PC, Flux capacitor, Framemeister and some blue sticky tape on the screen'. 'Billy confirms that what was used at the time, he has a short memory and forgot.'

    Haha
    Likes sprinter461 liked this post
  8. 04-05-2018, 03:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Crustysnail View Post
    I get the Impression that all you are doing is allowing Carlos (Team Billy) to find a desperate way to replicate the girder finger (via any means), rather than the impartial view suggested.

    Suddenly it will be 'we managed to replicate it via a PC, Flux capacitor, Framemeister and some blue sticky tape on the screen'. 'Billy confirms that what was used at the time, he has a short memory and forgot.'

    Haha
    Twin Galaxies has to be able to consistently replicate any findings Carlos presents.
    Likes Robert.F liked this post
  9. 04-05-2018, 03:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RomulusVonFlex View Post
    Twin Galaxies has to be able to consistently replicate any findings Carlos presents.
    being able to replicate doesn’t actually mean that was the method used. I guess aslong as nothing other than the equipment exactly used at the time with no additions, with no deviation whatsoever.
  10. 04-05-2018, 03:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    A "hysterical overreaction". You've got to be kidding me. As some of us said many times already, it's not just that Billy cheated in those three tapes, but rather everything surrounding those tapes: His poor sportsmanship towards Steve, bullying TG refs that first started to question the tapes, staging a board swap video to memorialize the accomplishments, etc. Tell you what, how about you ask RTM if he thinks banning Billy is a "hysterical overreaction".
    This is what I'm talking about. I didn't say that banning would be an hysterical overreaction, but you've chosen to read that. I think it's probably warranted to ban Billy Mitchell from future submissions, but largely it's a token gesture since clearly he cannot compete without cheating anymore. Killing off all of the historical scores would be the hysterical overreaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    Yeah, refereed by Todd Rogers. You just used Todd as an example of why it was perfectly okay to expunge him completely from the database, and now you're going to use that same person to justify to submission method of the 1.062 million? Give me a break!
    Seriously, what? Putting aside the last sentence being incoherent, do you have specific evidence that Billy cheated on the scores that haven't been brought up in this thread but you want removed anyway? I've read this whole thread. I've seen a lot of speculation, hearsay and scuttlebutt, and now people are treating the legitimate, hard-won and well-documented evidence of actual cheating as proof positive that, "Well this one guy once told me that a guy he knew totally had his dog kicked by Billy Mitchell". Doing so would turn this from a valid dispute into a witch-hunt.
Page 268 of 378 FirstFirst ... 168 218 258 266 267 268 269 270 278 318 368 ... LastLast
Results 2,671 to 2,680 of 3771
Page 268 of 378 FirstFirst ... 168 218 258 266 267 268 269 270 278 318 368 ... LastLast
Join us