Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800


Members banned from this thread: Almighty Dreadlock


Is this a valid dispute?

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This poll is closed
  1. 04-05-2018, 06:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake-Drake Rake View Post
    I believe that genuine videos should be highly reproducible in their distributions but that frequent saved-save usage will skew the frequency of counts in the columns.
    For that to be true, the state of the 1UP would have to be omitted from a MAME saved-state. But all indications are that it is indeed included (and why wouldn't it be.)
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  2. 04-05-2018, 06:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by DustPuzzle View Post
    So 3 out of his 8 high scores are under dispute. I'm not sure if you're counting previously submitted scores that aren't listed due to being superseded - I have now idea how I'd be able to view that. The earliest of the disputed scores is from 1999, however there are scores stretching back to 1984. Are you suggesting he cheated at those through the avenues that have been established in this thread? Or that he didn't post a public score in 2004 at the Midwest Gaming Classic? Even DKF, who were the earliest to react to this evidence continue to maintain that score.
    no, i'm suggesting the situation with him is worse than it was with todd, I'm sure todd had valid scores as well. But in todds case you felt it was fair to strip all, well everything about todd applies to billy all the more.

    Remember, lots of people have real scores, just lack proof. We've thrown out mike girard's don flamenco time which is very well documented because he got cheating with his mike tyson time. We've thrown out todd's scores that at least had photograph and were verfiied by activision -- and yes i think verified by activision as weak as that is, means more than verfied by billy's buddies. I'm not sure every s core of billy's is fake, thats not what i'm saying, i'm saying i have no reason to believe they're real either without proof. And the word of him and his buddies dont count as proof. Without full video I just dont see why anyone would believe any of billy's score. He claimed to have witnesses for his boomer's score fake score too. I need more than a claim of witnsses to believe something from billy.

    And i'll take it one step further, not just why would i trust any of billy's score, but why would anyone trust twin galaxies if a single billy score remains?

    Still waiting for you to provide any actual proof that even one of billy's scores is real
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  3. 04-05-2018, 06:56 AM
    i also find it interesting people are more ok with a banning than a stripping. I feel the opposite. A banning prevents people from submitting real scores. Are we really worried that billy would slip even one fake score past us? Billy's not a brilliant cheater, his system of cheating is based on his pull over people, something he no longer has. Under peer ajudication his score would've been thrown out the moment it happened.

    Also, remmeber the "clean slate" rule where former cheaters didnt have the old scores reinstated, the wipe was maintained, but they were allowed to submit.

    Falsifying evidence, and in particular the fact that billy got his fake scores in the database the same way he got his unknown (unknown if fake or real) scores in the database it seems to me those are the important scores to remove. New scores though (which is what banning would be prevent), not really worried about billy and his team of engineers tricking anyone in the future. I'd say let him submit. Now of course, we cant waste our time dealing with one fake sub after another, so if he cheats under TGSAP then ban him because its too much administrative effort to keep up with repeatedly catching the same thing.

    Accuracy matters, but time is a factor too. This is why I beleive in banning people after they were caught, billy was never caught cheating under modern tg and he never would cheat under modern tgsap. but also, because accuracy matters an accurate scoreboard really shouldnt have mitchell scores on them especially considering how they were entered in the first place
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  4. 04-05-2018, 07:14 AM
    The short screen I found here:


    ...is NOT in the high quality version of the 1.04M tape located here:
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...129#post959129

    It happens (doesn't happen) at score 834100.
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  5. 04-05-2018, 08:16 AM
    They say you can't Can't judge a book by its cover and rightfully so.
    But after reading this book cover to cover call “I always has a plan”
    I have come to learn more than i had ever expected,
    This book contains descriptions of malicious behavior in the form`s of manipulative, Premeditated acts of Deception, all in order to gain favor with people and discredit others only to stay on top of a video game score board shameful really.
    Callus Cold and Calculating should be the name of this book and this is how i will think of it for now on.

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  6. 04-05-2018, 08:53 AM
    oh this is great, i'm now getting private messages telling me just how legit billy's other scores are.

    if anyone has proof share it publicly. heck, if you're resorting to IM cause you fear backlash, notice i havent shared the names of my private messages. give me evidence and i'll share it for you and leave your name out of it

    people's willingness to believe billy and argue in private is astounding. I'm still waiting for anyone who believes him to present public info
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  7. 04-05-2018, 10:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post

    Todd:
    a small fraction of his scores were disputed with cause
    todd admitted to self entering a portion of his scores -- note that he freely volunteered this information BEFORE being caught which indicates to me theres at least some basis to trust him on what he did and didnt self enter
    Correction on this: Only admitted to it years after the fact, and only admitted to the one time my brother caught him doing it red-handed. RTM provided clear circumstantial evidence that Todd had been habitually entering in his own scores, which he never admitted to. It was only when self-entering of scores in the database was shut off in the code that Todd's record submissions suddenly stopped right at that moment.
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  8. 04-05-2018, 10:54 AM
    If some people are all about preserving history so things aren't forgotten, how about a hall of shame? Biggest cheats ranked from 1 to 10. Then Billy still has a record and a title. Would that make him happy? Because, in the end, it's all about making Bully Bill happy, isn't it?
  9. 04-05-2018, 11:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    what are you talking about? have you even read this thread? Many people, right in this thread, and elsewhere have bothered to show it numerous times. Bllly's scores were entered in every bit a shady way as todds. With todd you had impossible scores combined with self entry. With billy you have falsified evicence combined with entry based not based on following procedure but just because he's billy mitchel. Its actually because this is meant to be factual database and because there's zero reason to bleieve any of billy's score that a complete wipe makes sense. If i'm missing something please let me know. What shred of evidence do you have to believe even one of billy's scores might possibly be real?
    Referring to the statement above: "Bllly's scores were entered in every bit a shady way as todds. ".

    His perfect pac-man score video is incomplete - no end-game / split screen was provided.

    Regards
    Francois du Toit



    streaming mspacman normal and turbo speed at: https://www.twitch.tv/francoisadt

    Francois du Toit
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  10. 04-05-2018, 11:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by francoisadt View Post
    Referring to the statement above: "Bllly's scores were entered in every bit a shady way as todds. ".

    His perfect pac-man score video is incomplete - no end-game / split screen was provided.

    Regards
    Francois du Toit



    How about we add...

    TG started out based on the fact that all scores were at factory settings. So in the instance of Pac-man that means 3+1 was the lives setting.

    I've always found it strange that it was altered to 5+1 settings. I found it more strange that those settings were changed just prior to Billy subbmitting a perfect 5+1 game. In essence Billy was the ONLY player who could have possibly gotten that perfect score, because the settings were changed specifically for him.

    Now you have to ask yourself. Why would they do this?

    The answer I was given was, so nobody could score a higher score. OK that made me go WTF? If TG is the scoring authority, and they say 3+1 is the score. And Billy did THAT first. How could anyone score higher? Was TG going to change the settings for somebody else? If the answer was NO, then WHY change it for Billy?

    Pure speculation on my part... but I'd be willing to wager that Billy already knew of a higher existing and/or possibly perfect score already achieved on the 3+1 settings. Hence the settings change. If it as merely to stop anyone else from changing the settings, to prevent higher scores as suggested... then why had they NOT done that earlier for other titles? Why now? Why only this game? And why so conveniently that only Billy played and submitted on those settings almost immediately after the change?

    Anyways... that's an entire different can of worms...

    Back to this can.

    If he cheated. And the evidence is undeniable. Ban & Wipe. Period.

    You set the precident with Todd.

    And I am against the wall of shame. Unless it only lists the players name, and the reason for the ban/wipe. No scores should be included. If they lied, it's not real. It doesn't exist. It was bull****.

    Cheaters Wall of Shame

    Todd Rogers
    Billy Mitchell

    Etc. Maybe the dates they were banned. But no games. No scores. No honor.
    Only way I'd mention a game was like if there was a *reason* field.

    Reason: Banned for falsifying Donkey Kong Arcade scores.

    Something like that.

    Just my 2 cents...
    Buy the Ticket... Take the Ride...


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