Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800


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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 03-23-2018, 03:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Upon close review... we discovered

    The digital copies of Billy Mitchell's tape that we received from Richie Knuckles (who received them from former TG Ref Greg Erway) are actually digital captures of the video taped performances and are NOT "direct captures from a computer output."

    We will be making these performances available today for review completely unaltered and not re-compressed. (We have the ability to upload videos and keep their original compression intact without our system re-compressing or changing anything.)

    These recordings are the clearest recordings we have seen of the performances.

    One clarification, I was a member of the rules committee and technical advisor for TG. I was never officially titled a referee. I did however record some scores for TG at one or two Funspot events. I reviewed some recordings to give my input to other refs, and in this case I was asked to ref to 1.05M score, which I rejected as a taped submission based on my understanding of the rules at the time. It was accepted under the rules at the time as a witnessed score by Todd. I never entered a score into the TG database as I didn't have those credentials nor did I wish to.

    The 1.05M was received by me on DVD for review. The 1.04M score I included on the DVD I burned for Richie was added as I had it and it fit on the remaining DVD space. I do not recall the source of the 1.04M score I included. I do believe I never received any VHS tapes for any scores to review. I do have other recordings of scores for Steve and possibley for Bill. The original DVD that I received of the 1.05M score was forwarded on to another person that was also asked to evaluate the recording. I simply copied the DVD contents, with permission, to my computer and reviewed it from that copy.

    hope that helps and might clarify anything that might have been confusing.
    Gregory S. Erway

    #1 Tapper TGTS 3,162,125 05Jun05 (Guiness 2007 score)
    #1 Rootbeer Tapper TGMS 1,959,200 28Jul86
    #1 Wild Western 826,900 07Jun04
    #1 Pepper II 917,540 11Mar07 (over 1mil now...on tape)
    D2K progress: 199,700 L5 100m (board 36)
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  2. 03-23-2018, 04:12 PM
    Oh, this makes more sense now. Thanks.
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  3. 03-23-2018, 05:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post

    We will be making these performances available today for review completely unaltered and not re-compressed. (We have the ability to upload videos and keep their original compression intact without our system re-compressing or changing anything.)

    These recordings are the clearest recordings we have seen of the performances.
    Awesome! Please post in this thread the download links when you have them up. I want to make my own archives of all the image evidence collected and collated thus far.

    Cheers!
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  4. 03-23-2018, 05:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Upon close review... we discovered

    The digital copies of Billy Mitchell's tape that we received from Richie Knuckles (who received them from former TG Ref Greg Erway) are actually digital captures of the video taped performances and are NOT "direct captures from a computer output."

    We will be making these performances available today for review completely unaltered and not re-compressed. (We have the ability to upload videos and keep their original compression intact without our system re-compressing or changing anything.)

    These recordings are the clearest recordings we have seen of the performances.
    If they are the clearest recordings you have seen, then how can they be captures of the video tape? A capture of a video tape can't be clearer than said video tape. It will inherently be worse quality than the video tape due to generation loss. Hasn't it been established that the recordings were originally done with a capture device on a PC at ~30 frames per second (rather than ~60 fields per second like you'd get by recording directly with a VCR)? That, along with the digital files being the clearest copies, indicates that the tapes were sourced from the digital video files rather than the other way around.
  5. 03-23-2018, 05:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    If they are the clearest recordings you have seen, then how can they be captures of the video tape? A capture of a video tape can't be clearer than said video tape. It will inherently be worse quality than the video tape due to generation loss. Hasn't it been established that the recordings were originally done with a capture device on a PC at ~30 frames per second (rather than ~60 fields per second like you'd get by recording directly with a VCR)? That, along with the digital files being the clearest copies, indicates that the tapes were sourced from the digital video files rather than the other way around.
    Degradation is a possibility. They aren't new tape. Digital copies won't lose quality.
  6. 03-23-2018, 05:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RomulusVonFlex View Post
    Degradation is a possibility. They aren't new tape. Digital copies won't lose quality.
    Magnetic tape that's only a dozen or so years old and hasn't been played many times won't be degraded by any significant amount. I have tapes from the mid '80s that aren't noticeably degraded, and they have been played many times.
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  7. 03-23-2018, 06:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    Magnetic tape that's only a dozen or so years old and hasn't been played many times won't be degraded by any significant amount. I have tapes from the mid '80s that aren't noticeably degraded, and they have been played many times.
    There are a lot of factors that could cause it though. Your tapes were probably better taken care of.
  8. 03-23-2018, 07:07 PM
    For evidentiary purposes of this dispute thread, we are attaching the digital copies of Billy Mitchell's 1,050,200 and 1,047,200 performances that TG received from Richie Knuckles (who received them from former TG advisor Greg Erway)

    These are actually digital captures of the video taped performances and are NOT "direct captures from a computer output."

    These have been uploaded to keep its original compression intact without our system re-compressing or changing anything.

    DO NOT REPOST THESE VIDEOS WITHOUT EXPLICIT TG PERMISSION.

    Vzaar Video Url:


    Vzaar Video Url:

    DO NOT REPOST THESE VIDEOS WITHOUT EXPLICIT TG PERMISSION.
  9. 03-23-2018, 07:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RomulusVonFlex View Post
    There are a lot of factors that could cause it though. Your tapes were probably better taken care of.
    Exactly. Even something as simple as having tapes near stereo speakers can severely degrade the quality. Lets also not forgot that the DVD may have been recording from a 'master tape' and not specifically from the VHS tape Jace also has.
  10. 03-23-2018, 07:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post

    DO NOT REPOST THESE VIDEOS WITHOUT EXPLICIT TG PERMISSION.
    I was just about to quote this part about "DO NOT DOWNLOAD" and ask what was up with that. ;-)
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