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Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. Patience

    02-10-2018, 11:30 AM
    I'm reading every day and things continue to seem pretty clear cut overall. I think my only relevant input to this thread is to register my personal happiness in the concept of allowing time for any and all evidence to come forward. I believe it serves a few important purposes:

    1) Assuming he loses the score which looks probable at this point it keeps pro-billy folks from being able to claim they were not given ample time to mount a defense.

    2) Waiting does not really change the end result and there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

    3) Well, if we are advocates of Twin Galaxies growing its user base... whos gunna complain about the increased traffic? ;) This one really is not a "good" reason, but it is a fringe benefit.

    I guess number 1 is the only truly important one but it is important. So even though I think the evidence exists to remove the score immediately, I appreciate TG's running after any evidence people bring forward with vigor and taking time to do it.
    Mild mannered Tetris player by day... Wild mannered Tetris player by night!
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  2. 02-10-2018, 11:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    psst...there is no real stuff and so it'll never be provided. the entire thing is "something big coming next week" "ok fine that was a dud but next week there really is something big" "ok fine that was nothing too, but have some patience something is about to come out" "ooo you got me again, i admit i had nothing, but now i do just wait a little bit longer"....
    Everytime the dreaded 3 notification quote thing happens I cringe knowing someone is about to pick me apart. No these guys need to have this new evidence by Friday or at least an update on what's happening so far and what is coming. It would also help to know what hardware they are using for the direct feed, how it was set up ect, because maybe someone else can get that ball rolling quicker.

    The clock is ticking and Billy is about to turn into a pumpkin if he can't explain this. I already tried to do what little I can on my part.
  3. 02-10-2018, 11:40 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RomulusVonFlex View Post
    Christian Pac Man got a lot more quiet after Twin Galaxies or Jace pointed out that the footage he was posting showed it wasn't an original arcade cabinet.
    I pleaded with him on Facebook to bring his “evidence” and argument here. He won’t. He has blocked me.
  4. Recreate a sample video

    02-10-2018, 12:03 PM
    Here is what I suggest that Billy's team do:

    1. Find the original arcade cabinet the score was achieved on. I believe Neil Hernandez has it in Florida, but i may have mis read that.
    2. Hook up the original direct capture device.
    3. Play some Donkey Kong.
    4. Record to a VCR via direct catpure device noted in step 2.
    5. Upload the video so people can analyze it.

    If it exhibits the same "wow, that looks just like Mame" behavior, the it requires further investigation.
    Surely it cannot be that hard to put this together. The same people who did it the first time are still in Florida, are they not?
    "May the Heavy Hand spare you" -- Datagod 1:19
    ~~ Strongest Punch on Twin Galaxies ~~

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  5. 02-10-2018, 12:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    psst...there is no real stuff and so it'll never be provided. the entire thing is "something big coming next week" "ok fine that was a dud but next week there really is something big" "ok fine that was nothing too, but have some patience something is about to come out" "ooo you got me again, i admit i had nothing, but now i do just wait a little bit longer"....
    The direct feed thing is worth exploring. It's only fair as that was the setup that was used, what they need to do is get the guy who did it, the hardware they used and capture it. That's it! The original tapes would help as well.

    But as I already explained I just can't see how that would make the screen render like MAME unless it bypasses the digital to analog conversion which would be overkill in my book.
  6. 02-10-2018, 12:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by HectorTelloc View Post
    The direct feed thing is worth exploring. It's only fair as that was the setup that was used, what they need to do is get the guy who did it, the hardware they used and capture it. That's it! The original tapes would help as well.

    But as I already explained I just can't see how that would make the screen render like MAME unless it bypasses the digital to analog conversion which would be overkill in my book.
    We already have direct feed video. It shows that it does not load anything like mame.
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  7. 02-10-2018, 12:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fendersonia View Post
    I hate to do this, but can someone shut this ****-stirrer up already? Where's the mythical "heavy hand"?!
    Maybe you're a great guy, Hector.... but for the love of christmas, can somebody squelch this drama lover's attempts to obfuscate things? He has literally *never* brought anything useful to the table.
    Yeah, THAT's not toxic at all. Thanks Cat.
    "May the Heavy Hand spare you" -- Datagod 1:19
    ~~ Strongest Punch on Twin Galaxies ~~

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  8. 02-10-2018, 12:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RomulusVonFlex View Post
    We already have direct feed video. It shows that it does not load anything like mame.
    Right but the hardware or setup Billy and co used is different. If they did something unorthodox it's worth looking at. The experts agree they likely didn't, this shouldn't take but a few days to put together. The only way it could render even remotely to mame is if they bypassed the analog conversion process. But I'm sure the experts here may have mentioned that you would have to have different video hardware for that to happen.
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  9. 02-10-2018, 12:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by HectorTelloc View Post
    Right but the hardware or setup Billy and co used is different. If they did something unorthodox it's worth looking at. The experts agree they likely didn't, this shouldn't take but a few days to put together. The only way it could render even remotely to mame is if they bypassed the analog conversion process. But I'm sure the experts here may have mentioned that you would have to have different video hardware for that to happen.
    I would like to see some sort of official statement from Billy (or his video guy) of EXACTLY what they claim their recording technique was. People are saying we should recreate it and test that way, but I still haven't seen any details given? Why are we having to guess?

    I'm also very curious about your statement that, "The only way it could render even remotely to mame is if they bypassed the analog conversion process". What expert has said "it could render remotely to mame if they bypassed the analog conversion process"? Everything I've seen indicates bypassing analog conversion isn't going to make it render like MAME. Can you please provide a reference to this expert's claim?
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  10. 02-10-2018, 12:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by gstrain View Post
    I would like to see some sort of official statement from Billy (or his video guy) of EXACTLY what they claim their recording technique was. People are saying we should recreate it and test that way, but I still haven't seen any details given? Why are we having to guess?

    I'm also very curious about your statement that, "The only way it could render even remotely to mame is if they bypassed the analog conversion process". What expert has said "it could render remotely to mame if they bypassed the analog conversion process"? Everything I've seen indicates bypassing analog conversion isn't going to make it render like MAME. Can you please provide a reference to this expert's claim?
    No expert said that, It was my theory that if you bypassed the analog conversion and used something else to convert the raw digital data through another converter then it could render like MAME. In video memory everything is handled like tiles, well at least on the NES. What I noticed with MAME rendering is on some screens the ladders load, the platforms load, then the sprites. The NES uses nametables to store tiles, and that could render like MAME through an emulator, while on an actual console it may render differently. But I think Tanner Fokkens debunked that with me privately because of how the video hardware handles raw data...
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