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Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 02-13-2018, 02:10 AM
    I don't even know why these videos:

    - the board swap video
    - moments after setting the DK Jr. world record video

    even exist at all. I honestly would have never uploaded these videos as it seems they cause more harm to the credibility of the scores than good. I mean, if Billy was trying to hide evidence, he did a bad job at allowing these videos to surface on the internet.

    Also if Billy can submit a score with video, but no audio then can I submit a score with no video and only audio. Like seriously, what if submitted a score that was nothing but audio? Would that count?
  2. 02-13-2018, 02:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Looking for further information:
    We have closely examined the unplugging of each connection demonstrated in the video and we have been able to account for each line being disconnected via comparison. Since all lines are accounted for, we have so far been unable to discern any direct-feed line splits, modifications, or any other manner in which a direct-feed video could have been produced from the unplugged connections depicted.

    However, it would be helpful if others are able to confirm this finding or invalidate this finding and post the results into this dispute thread for our review.
    A direct-feed recording from a classic Nintendo cabinet such as Donkey Kong would not split off from the connections at the boardset, but rather, it would plug into the unused "invert out" header on the color inverter board, which is mounted on the flyback transformer cage of the monitor:



    This is not only the most straightforward way of doing it, but Robert Childs, in his lengthy post on this thread, said that that's how he did it. So that's where to look for a direct-feed connection, though that area doesn't appear to be visible in the video. It seems that even without being able to see the color inverter board, if Childs really did what he said he did, you should be able to see an extra cable / wire bundle coming out of the back of the cabinet.
    Thanks Jace Hall, timhett, erockbrox thanked this post
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  3. 02-13-2018, 02:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by bounty bob View Post
    MaximumSteve posted the response from Robert Childs stating that the direct feed was connected to the machine at the video convertor, so you just need to concentrate on that area, if it is shown on the video.

    From MaximumSteve post:
    The Converter hook-up works like this:
    The video converter is connected directly to the video output of the DK inverter board. The inverter receives the video from the DK board itself NOT the Sanyo monitor that the player sees from his view.
    Yes, this is why we have some confusion when examining the video. You can clearly see the video display outputs being disconnected and there is no splice or deviation to that connection that we can discern in any way.

    For a direct feed to exist, the initial signals must come from the PCB and then be routed to the conversion process. In order to do this and also have the DK CRT display simultaneously, both the CRT and the direct feed must be receiving signals at the same time. We believe that this would result in additional wiring to be present and visible at the PCB level, or at the very least within the cabinet in near proximity to the PCB.

    Perhaps @YesAffinity might take a picture of his DK PCB to illustrate since he is set up for direct feed.
    Jace Hall
    Chairman of the Board
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
  4. 02-13-2018, 02:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    We believe that this would result in additional wiring to be present and visible at the PCB level, or at the very least within the cabinet in near proximity to the PCB.
    See my post and picture above. The stock color inverter board, which is mounted on the flyback transformer cage, acts as both a video signal splitter and a color inverter. That is where the RGB video signal is being split.
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  5. 02-13-2018, 02:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    A direct-feed recording from a classic Nintendo cabinet such as Donkey Kong would not split off from the connections at the boardset, but rather, it would plug into the unused "invert out" header on the color inverter board, which is mounted on the flyback transformer cage of the monitor:



    This is not only the most straightforward way of doing it, but Robert Childs, in his lengthy post on this thread, said that that's how he did it. So that's where to look for a direct-feed connection, though that area doesn't appear to be visible in the video. It seems that even without being able to see the color inverter board, if Childs really did what he said he did, you should be able to see an extra cable / wire bundle coming out of the back of the cabinet.
    Yes you are correct. This would be the easiest way, but so far we have not been able to identify any cable coming out of the back of the cabinet to support this either.
    Jace Hall
    Chairman of the Board
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
    Likes Robert.F liked this post
  6. direct feed

    02-13-2018, 02:43 AM
    That was another big thing that got Hank worked up. No direct feed equipment in the video. I asked todd about that when we were still talking and he had nothing to say.
    Likes Robert.F, adwinistator liked this post
  7. 02-13-2018, 02:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Yes you are correct. This would be the easiest way, but so far we have not been able to identify any cable coming out of the back of the cabinet to support this either.
    I don't see one either, though I suppose it's possible to place the RGB-to-NTSC converter and VCR inside the cabinet, which would allow you to put the door back on the cabinet. Donkey Kong and other classic Nintendo cabinets have an AC outlet inside the cabinet which you could plug a VCR into, along with a wall wart for the RGB-to-NTSC converter. Normally both of the outlets are occupied (the monitor and the marquee lamp fixture plug into it, but that's easily solved with a dime-a-dozen power strip. By default it is only 100 VAC though, which is the Japanese power standard (a big stepdown transformer brings the 120 VAC mains down to 100 VAC; if you plug a Nintendo/Sanyo monitor directly into 120 VAC you'll fry it in short order). I don't know if a typical U.S. VCR will run on 100 VAC or not, though there is also a terminal block in there where you can easily tap into straight 120 VAC:

  8. 02-13-2018, 04:31 AM
    It may be possible, but it seems improbable. The bottom of cabinets are not space-friendly places - it's a loaner cab, and if the issue is getting access to power, they'd just as easily run an extension cord from an outlet outside the machine. As well, I don't see any secondary light sources from within the cab that would highlight the presence of additional equipment like a VCR. I would also think you'd want to have clear access to the VCR during game play, which isn't possible from within the cabinet. As well, isn't there an interlock switch on DK cabinets for the back door?

    Ultimately, on the video Robert fires up DK Junior, and then the camera pulls out to show Billy, as Robert says on camera "go get the high score," or something to that effect. I don't see any plain reason why the intended audience of this video should believe that after stopping the video, Robert went back into the cabinet to either complete set up of the direct feed or replaced the back door.
  9. 02-13-2018, 05:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    It may be possible, but it seems improbable.
    I know. It would be a pain. The floor of the cabinet is cluttered with the power supply and stepdown transformer. There's some floor space behind those things, but you'd have to lean way in there. It would be easier with a camcorder that has a composite video input. I don't think this is an important issue either way though. If the screen is being drawn like MAME then it is MAME, regardless of any of the side issues.

    The bottom of cabinets are not space-friendly places - it's a loaner cab, and if the issue is getting access to power, they'd just as easily run an extension cord from an outlet outside the machine. As well, I don't see any secondary light sources from within the cab that would highlight the presence of additional equipment like a VCR. I would also think you'd want to have clear access to the VCR during game play, which isn't possible from within the cabinet. As well, isn't there an interlock switch on DK cabinets for the back door?
    As far as I know, classic Nintendo cabinets never had an interlock switch, though it wouldn't matter either way. Interlock switches are made so that they can be manually switched on even if the door is off, plus many of the cabinets that did come with them have long since had them removed and bypassed; my Missile Command cabinet for example.
  10. Iv Try

    02-13-2018, 06:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    Looking for further information:

    As part of our investigation we have been examining this video closely to either confirm or invalidate some assertions that have been made regarding the content presented in this dispute claim.



    Aside from the DK/DK jr board swap issue itself, which we are looking closely at, we have been thus far been unable to locate any wiring or hardware associated with direct-feed recording in this video.

    We have closely examined the unplugging of each connection demonstrated in the video and we have been able to account for each line being disconnected via comparison. Since all lines are accounted for, we have so far been unable to discern any direct-feed line splits, modifications, or any other manner in which a direct-feed video could have been produced from the unplugged connections depicted.

    However, it would be helpful if others are able to confirm this finding or invalidate this finding and post the results into this dispute thread for our review.

    We have not made a final determination in this matter, but in the interest of being comprehensive we wanted to ask if any 3rd parties have investigated this aspect already, and if so, ask for that information to be added to the evidence pool for further review.

    Thank you.
    Iv own a few Nintendo cab`s, one being a Donkey Kong with the multi wire system and I`m vary well acquainted with the wire harness size and color. I have look at this video over and over and can not see anything out of the ordinary in terms of extra wire`s that are not original. The white video ribbon cable shows no sighs of being splice and the cable go`s up to the monitor as it should and disappears out of sight ,,, I can see no evidence of direct feed.
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