Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800


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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 09-18-2019, 05:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    I'd like to know who helped Billy fabricate his tapes. I'm going under the assumption that the tapes are not simply recordings of legitimate DK runs on MAME, because there would be no advantage to using MAME in that case. MAME only offers an advantage if you use save states (and various expert DK players have commented that the gameplay on Billy's tapes strongly suggests save state usage due to extreme risk-taking that rarely, if ever, backfires and an implausible amount of favorable RNG), and it's no trivial matter to stitch together segments from save states to make a 1M+ game recording that can pass for being legitimate. Is Billy more technically inclined than he lets on or did he have help?
    Either scenario wouldn't surprise me. Some of the sycophants the follow Billy around are absolute snakes, and have clearly helped Billy when they knew full well he was up to shenanigans. Even in Apollo Legend's video where he visits Billy and Childs, the question was raised about the faked board swap video, and you see Billy high-tail it out of there with Childs dutifully falling on the sword over it (with a flimsy excuse that doesn't pass the smell test in a historical context). It just makes you shake your head in disgust at both of them. One lies to cover the other while the other runs off and hides.
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  2. 09-18-2019, 05:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    I'd like to know who helped Billy fabricate his tapes. I'm going under the assumption that the tapes are not simply recordings of legitimate DK runs on MAME, because there would be no advantage to using MAME in that case. MAME only offers an advantage if you use save states (and various expert DK players have commented that the gameplay on Billy's tapes strongly suggests save state usage due to extreme risk-taking that rarely, if ever, backfires and an implausible amount of favorable RNG), and it's no trivial matter to stitch together segments from save states to make a 1M+ game recording that can pass for being legitimate. Is Billy more technically inclined than he lets on or did he have help?
    Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's actually that difficult. As I understand it, using the save states, one would play until they got the result they wanted for a level/stage and then save. Then they would play the next level/stage until they got the result they wanted and save there. Each time, you would restart from the previous save making a "continuous" run. If you did this during transition boards it would appear fluid. Then you'd have to take that recording and put it on a VHS, which even 10-15 years ago wasn't overall difficult (put the MAME game on a CD-R, put that in your TV and direct record to VHS).
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  3. 09-18-2019, 06:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    During Billy's moment and I remember this with crystal clarity, he announced to the audience when discussing "Donkey Kong" words to the effect of "they say it couldn't be done" after which he raised up in his hand a VHS tape tape which must have been that 1.014M tape and proclaimed it to be the world's first 1M score on "Pacman".


    RTM REPLY - my thanks to "Ersatz_cats" for pointing out my MAJOR typo here...I meant to say "DK" and not "Pacman". Might have crystal clarity on what happened, but my fingers certainly did not type as much !!
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  4. 09-18-2019, 06:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    2. Billy claims the 1.014 million was "yanked", implying somehow it was not approved by TG. Here we have Robert asserting Billy himself "yanked" the tape.


    RTM REPLY - Billy never physically took the tape from me...he verbally rescinded his earlier request for submission.

    My take on this is this...Billy's hand was forced once Steve's 1M tape was received. It was going to be the world's 1st 1M so long as it passed TG validation...and it actually DID until that Kuh-revelation at Steve's home. Due to Billy's 2000 MTV interview where he boasted of doing some "gaming feat" that had "never been done before" (see below) I believe this forced his hand to reveal his 1M score on DK.

    At the Mall of America event in 2001 which I attended along with Billy, Walter and Dwayne, I have an anecdote to share which Billy can refute ALL that he wants...I will swear to this below in court.

    Billy, Dwayne and I were walking after the first or second night of the event in the Mall parking lot and I believe we were either headed off to eat or back to the motel. I asked Billy about his MTV promise of this "feat" and told him my idea of what it was seeing how I felt I understood his gaming goals better than most people. I told Billy, with Dwayne close by, that I felt he wanted to in a single day get a 1M on DK, a 1M on DKJr, a 1M on Ms Pac, and a new WR on Burgertime and possibly something else...basically the five games that he was at one point the simultaneous record holder at, and that he would in one major attempt regain the records and set new thresholds on each. Certainly that would be major.

    Billy told me, and I quote, first "Who told you that ?" to which I explained that this is what I would do if I were him, to which he then said that (as close as I remember to the exact words) "You are the closest person to guessing what I have planned than anyone".

    Billy will likely state that he never told anyone of his plans...and he might be right about that save for his confidantes Chris Ayra, Rick Fothergill and Steve Sanders, but he dare not deny having this conversation with me in the parking lot.

    Fast forward to 2004. With Steve's tape no longer being announced by TG untll further investigation could be performed, there was not need for Billy to announce the 1M on DK since that would diminish the totality of his proposed "gaming feat" which is why he gave me verbal instructions to "yank" his score...meaning not enter it into TG or announce it, and I of course did not.

    So, for sake of historical clarity, that is what happened with Billy's 1.014M score in terms of why it was not entered into the database, both due to the gamer's request and my personal assessment of why that request was made.

    Robert
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  5. 09-18-2019, 06:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    Robert, have you been contacted by Tipster yet to be interviewed on his show?


    RTM REPLY - not yet, but there's no guarantee that I even would be. The one time he interviewed me I actually contacted him and he seemed thrilled that I was interested in appearing. I thought that interview went well, and I very much thank him for allowing me to speak for a good 90 minutes plus covering a broad range of topics.
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  6. 09-18-2019, 06:22 AM
    @RTM,

    I think you'll like Billy's claim this morning in a tweet about the 1.014 Million:

    "I don't submit scores via tape."

    So he's effectively calling you a liar about that, and subsequently the 1.047 Million as well.
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  7. 09-18-2019, 06:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    That Atariage thread was nothing compared to the flak I got on the TG forums. Back then, there was a HUGE fan following for Todd Rogers, and my brother and I both were made out to be villains that were just "jealous" of Todd's skill (note the 'jealousy' theme that keeps getting employed when challenging bogus records).

    Keep in mind we were also having to fight against a referee that turned out to be lying for Todd, and is currently still in prison for raping his daughter. That ref SWORE Todd's Barnstorming record was legit and that he personally verified it and said "end of discussion". I wasn't about to take that as the final TG ruling, so I learned just enough coding to hack Barnstorming and remove all the obstacles. When I posted that video of it being SLOWER than Todd's run, we FINALLY started getting traction on people realizing Todd had done an impossible record (not even worrying about Dragster for that matter). Then the TG ref backtracked, admitting he never saw it, and that he simply misread a magazine score list due to a "coffee stain". That ref then tried to enter a 32.50 for Todd just arbitrarily, and my brother and I got livid over that. Walter was ZERO help in the matter, so we had to bother Robert to investigate. What's interesting is Robert initially gave Todd the benefit of the doubt and thought we just didn't appreciate how good Todd was, but the more Robert investigated this and other records logged by Todd, the more he realized Todd has been pathologically lying about countless officially logged records.

    This is back when my brother and I tried to clean the place up, and Robert bent over backwards under the work load. It's a horrible shame how corrupt TG was, but at the same time, there were good people trying to fight the good fight. Like Carlos said: Had I known from the beginning what I was in for, I would have ran the other direction. Like Carlos, I'm an overweight guy, but you would have seen me running too.


    RTM REPLY - one small point for sake of full transparency. To this day I maintain that I did see a 32.67 by Todd on "Barnstorming" game 1B as set during the one and only Twin Galaxies Atari 2600 "Time Deca" event - https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Final-Results

    I never saw the 32.50 or 32.04 but I firmly swear that I saw the 32.67 as submitted via AVI file for that event. I'm sorry that things turned out the way that they did with his scores based on the dispute outcome, but I know for a fact that I saw this score (time). Read the above link. Judge for yourself.
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  8. 09-18-2019, 06:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - Billy never physically took the tape from me...he verbally rescinded his earlier request for submission.

    My take on this is this...Billy's hand was forced once Steve's 1M tape was received. It was going to be the world's 1st 1M so long as it passed TG validation...and it actually DID until that Kuh-revelation at Steve's home. Due to Billy's 2000 MTV interview where he boasted of doing some "gaming feat" that had "never been done before" (see below) I believe this forced his hand to reveal his 1M score on DK.

    At the Mall of America event in 2001 which I attended along with Billy, Walter and Dwayne, I have an anecdote to share which Billy can refute ALL that he wants...I will swear to this below in court.

    Billy, Dwayne and I were walking after the first or second night of the event in the Mall parking lot and I believe we were either headed off to eat or back to the motel. I asked Billy about his MTV promise of this "feat" and told him my idea of what it was seeing how I felt I understood his gaming goals better than most people. I told Billy, with Dwayne close by, that I felt he wanted to in a single day get a 1M on DK, a 1M on DKJr, a 1M on Ms Pac, and a new WR on Burgertime and possibly something else...basically the five games that he was at one point the simultaneous record holder at, and that he would in one major attempt regain the records and set new thresholds on each. Certainly that would be major.

    Billy told me, and I quote, first "Who told you that ?" to which I explained that this is what I would do if I were him, to which he then said that (as close as I remember to the exact words) "You are the closest person to guessing what I have planned than anyone".

    Billy will likely state that he never told anyone of his plans...and he might be right about that save for his confidantes Chris Ayra, Rick Fothergill and Steve Sanders, but he dare not deny having this conversation with me in the parking lot.

    Fast forward to 2004. With Steve's tape no longer being announced by TG untll further investigation could be performed, there was not need for Billy to announce the 1M on DK since that would diminish the totality of his proposed "gaming feat" which is why he gave me verbal instructions to "yank" his score...meaning not enter it into TG or announce it, and I of course did not.

    So, for sake of historical clarity, that is what happened with Billy's 1.014M score in terms of why it was not entered into the database, both due to the gamer's request and my personal assessment of why that request was made.

    Robert
    I remember that anecdote you told from a while back. And I agree that Steve's million + score forced Billy's hand, which is why he retracted the submission after Steve's score got held up. Although keep in mind the date on the 1.047 score is given as June of 2004, which means Billy had already been banking multiple non-legit tapes as an insurance policy as early as Spring/Summer of 2004.
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  9. 09-18-2019, 06:31 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - one small point for sake of full transparency. To this day I maintain that I did see a 32.67 by Todd on "Barnstorming" game 1B as set during the one and only Twin Galaxies Atari 2600 "Time Deca" event - https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Final-Results

    I never saw the 32.50 or 32.04 but I firmly swear that I saw the 32.67 as submitted via AVI file for that event. I'm sorry that things turned out the way that they did with his scores based on the dispute outcome, but I know for a fact that I saw this score (time). Read the above link. Judge for yourself.
    Yeah we now suspect he was using the barn-bimping glitch to get that score, because a perfect non-glitch run from the TASers is 32.69. You wouldn't have know to look for it, especially if it only happened once. Unfortunately Todd tried to claim he both knew of the glitch, but also never used it. Which do you believe him on about that?
  10. 09-18-2019, 06:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    @RTM,

    I think you'll like Billy's claim this morning in a tweet about the 1.014 Million:

    "I don't submit scores via tape."

    So he's effectively calling you a liar about that, and subsequently the 1.047 Million as well.


    RTM REPLY - Billy actually said that ?? Wow...he's in deeper do than he thinks.

    In Lincoln Center in front of 1500+ people WITH Walter he announced his 1.014M DK score and subsequently gave it to me so I could do the validation. How else did I prepare a massive EXCEL file detailing by level every single barrel hit, fireball and pie cart hit, points from barrel jumps and proximity jumps, gift points, bonus points never mind writing a near-40 page article comparing Bill-vs-Steve's 1st 1M+ scores ?

    Bill gave me the tape...there's an interview clip somewhere recently linked in this dispute thread where he says that "the tapes are in the capable hands of Robert Mruczek"...tapeS with an "S" at the end...so did he suddenly become daft and forget that he said this, never mind what he did in front of 1500 people back in 2004 ?

    Well, like a certain high level politician who likes to tweet and who has problems with facts, let Billy "tweet" what he wants...he just makes it worse for himself in the long run.
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