Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800


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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 09-18-2019, 06:36 AM
    Bah! Typos getting the better of me this morning:

    Barn-bumping glitch, and you wouldn't have known to look for it.

    At any rate, sorry to get off on a derail. Any mention of Todd just riles me up with all the bitter memories about catching him entering his own scores red-handed, and then all his fans attacking my brother and I like we just made it all up.
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  2. 09-18-2019, 06:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    Yeah we now suspect he was using the barn-bimping glitch to get that score, because a perfect non-glitch run from the TASers is 32.69. You wouldn't have know to look for it, especially if it only happened once. Unfortunately Todd tried to claim he both knew of the glitch, but also never used it. Which do you believe him on about that?


    RTM REPLY - I can't remember when...this was years after that deca and only in recent years possibly within the dispute forum, but the "barn bump glitch" is not something that I knew of back in 2001 when the time deca event occurred so if that was employed I would not have recognized it as a glitch back then. Thus I remember seeing the 32.67...of that I have no doubt...but was it done via "glitch" as you described ? Recent evidence would seem to support that assessment, I agree.
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  3. 09-18-2019, 06:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - Billy actually said that ?? Wow...he's in deeper do than he thinks.
    Yeah he used this weird implication that he had to "block" the submission (as though it was done without his permission), and then went on to state it's because he doesn't submit tapes for scores.
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  4. 09-18-2019, 06:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by francoisadt View Post
    Remember, a hypothesis does not have to be correct. While the hypothesis predicts what the researchers expect to see,
    the goal of the research is to determine whether this guess is right or wrong.

    .......

    For example: Due to the DK Jnr board was shown and not a DK board, what if there was a hidden multi kit which did enable both Dk and DK Jnr?
    https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/...ulti-Game+Kits
    This also do explain why MAME finger could be produce? Is there not mentioned by team Billy that a Dk Jnr board produce a MAME finger?
    If one do test this hypothesis then this case can also explain that new original hardware was used but a multi kit?

    Excellent point about the hypothesis and scientific method, Francois.

    Also, you raise a very good question about multi-boards. I am going to do some digging to find out when the first multi-boards became available, and what they were running. Chinese imports that I have seen use early versions of MAME, but the ones I have played are obvious poor emulation and glitchy.

    I will post my findings later on today.
    Been playing games since 1975
    Creator of Arcade Retro Clock


  5. 09-18-2019, 06:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82 View Post
    Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's actually that difficult. As I understand it, using the save states, one would play until they got the result they wanted for a level/stage and then save. Then they would play the next level/stage until they got the result they wanted and save there. Each time, you would restart from the previous save making a "continuous" run. If you did this during transition boards it would appear fluid. Then you'd have to take that recording and put it on a VHS, which even 10-15 years ago wasn't overall difficult (put the MAME game on a CD-R, put that in your TV and direct record to VHS).
    You don't get a continuous INP file by doing that, so you'd either have to stitch together multiple INP files (I've heard that can be done, though I don't know how it's done exactly) or you'd need to stitch together multiple video recordings seamlessly. If I remember right, Robert Mruczek said that the Funspot tape inexplicably jumped ahead 5,000 points in one spot, which would seem to indicate that someone forgot to append one of the segments in the video editing domain, because if it was a missing INP segment, the rest of the following INP segments wouldn't have played back correctly.
  6. 09-18-2019, 06:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by FBX View Post
    Either scenario wouldn't surprise me. Some of the sycophants the follow Billy around are absolute snakes
    Personal attacks like this have no place in the official dispute. We should be examining evidence and discussing.
    Please keep things civilized.
    Been playing games since 1975
    Creator of Arcade Retro Clock


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  7. 09-18-2019, 07:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - one small point for sake of full transparency. To this day I maintain that I did see a 32.67 by Todd on "Barnstorming" game 1B as set during the one and only Twin Galaxies Atari 2600 "Time Deca" event - https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Final-Results

    I never saw the 32.50 or 32.04 but I firmly swear that I saw the 32.67 as submitted via AVI file for that event. I'm sorry that things turned out the way that they did with his scores based on the dispute outcome, but I know for a fact that I saw this score (time). Read the above link. Judge for yourself.
    this is why hate when stupid team billy tries to undermine you with lies about donkey kong and lies about you. pay attention team billy, stuff like this is what RTM actually did, and now he's gonna get away with it cause you guys are making him a hero martyr with your lies about him

    no rtm you never saw that happen cause it never happend fairly, but since you're already on record saying it so much you know you can tell the truth and backtrack now. he may, MAY, have used the barnstorming smash glitch, which i doubt he even know about, but lets say he did. its a 30 second video, doesnt take long to analyze and see everytihng. You were explicilty asked if glitches were used since even then people already suspected glitches. you clarified you watched not once but twice and looked for glitches and yet saw none.

    so spare me the "we didnt know about the glitch at the time" had you watched the video twice explicilty looking for glitches thered be no way you missed that. even if noone knew about it at the time, had you done what you claimed, you would've seen it and learned it about right then and there. Either todd never did the time and you just backed him saying he did, no different than you defending his wabbit score saying we should round it to a possible score thereby destroying the evidence of the impossible score. Or todd did the score with a glitch, and you didnt see it, but claimed falsely you looked twice for glitches. or you did see it and claimed you didnt, there by supporting todd and being part of the conspiracy. anyway you slice it, your official story doesnt add up.

    either way, spin barnstorming anyway you like. you claimed you watched a score twice looking for glitches and saw none, yet there is no way thats the case. just as the alternate donkey kong rom you claim exists doesnt. and just as you removed dodge 'em scores that were real scores.

    i hope the reopen the dragster case too, that final statement of yours, the one you got jace to immediatley lock the sub after because you KNEW you provided out of context and false info and you didnt wanna get called out for it, yeah that one. Team billy is making a fool of themselves, they're lying about you, jace handled this dispute perfectly. The todd one though, jace made the mistake of giving you the last word and making a judgment on true info, provided with true but heavily misleading out of context material, as well as outright false info you provided. Further, its hard to claim honest mistake when on tipster interview you admited the two of you purposely planned to lock the thread right after your repsonse, making it clear there was no desire to give anyone a chance to respond, and why? why not let the defense respond to the most import testimony of all? oh yeah, cause you know you'd be on the line if we could actually respond to the crap you said there.
    Roy was Right
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  8. 09-18-2019, 07:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim_recoil View Post
    You don't get a continuous INP file by doing that, so you'd either have to stitch together multiple INP files (I've heard that can be done, though I don't know how it's done exactly) or you'd need to stitch together multiple video recordings seamlessly. If I remember right, Robert Mruczek said that the Funspot tape inexplicably jumped ahead 5,000 points in one spot, which would seem to indicate that someone forgot to append one of the segments in the video editing domain, because if it was a missing INP segment, the rest of the following INP segments wouldn't have played back correctly.
    Pretty sure there are ways with MAME to do exactly what I described (based off of the TAS site), though maybe it wasn't around/easily available at the time Billy was making these. Realistically though if you had a handful of these files recorded, there's no shortage of people you could pay to create a video like this even in the mid-2000s. I mean find an undergrad film student at almost any college and pay them. Maybe it was someone in the gaming community, but it could have just as easily been an av kid from the local high school that Billy paid a couple hundred bucks to do it.
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  9. 09-18-2019, 07:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82 View Post
    Pretty sure there are ways with MAME to do exactly what I described (based off of the TAS site), though maybe it wasn't around/easily available at the time Billy was making these. Realistically though if you had a handful of these files recorded, there's no shortage of people you could pay to create a video like this even in the mid-2000s. I mean find an undergrad film student at almost any college and pay them. Maybe it was someone in the gaming community, but it could have just as easily been an av kid from the local high school that Billy paid a couple hundred bucks to do it.
    I could easily do it myself with the video editing method. I would record the screen for the entire session with screen capture software, edit out the parts that show restarts from save states, then record the edited video to a VHS tape. The only problem is, MAME has an onscreen display that comes up when you save a state and when you load from a save state. I don't know if the onscreen display can easily be disabled or not.

    As for stitching together INPs, I have no idea how to do that. That would be the ideal method though, because there's no onscreen display issue to worry about, nor do you have to find the perfect frames to make your editing cuts on if doing it via video editing.
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  10. 09-18-2019, 07:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    We don't have to be pals, Tim. But we are not enemies either. I say we bury the hatchet for good this time.
    I was absolutely under the impression that we had done so LAST time. Yet here we are. Again.

    Don't take jabs at the USNVGT, or my friends in a post replying to me. That includes the tapes Scott had in his possession. I will be playing messenger boy after this message ONE time, becasue Scott posted something I *hope* ends the bullshit over the tapes. He posted it on Facebook. I beleive it is relevant and belongs here. It will be my one and only post shared, and I will not answer any questions about it. If you need further clarification seek out Scott. Also I am noting I am doing this without talking to Scott first. I beleive it belongs here.
    Buy the Ticket... Take the Ride...


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