Atari 2600 / VCS - Superman - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - 01:03.0 - Snowflake

Is this Performance Claim valid?

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  1. Atari 2600 / VCS - Superman - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B - 01:03.0 - Snowflake

    02-03-2018, 04:42 PM
    vzaar-player


    NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=348
    Rules
    Fastest time; you MUST build the bridge, capture all criminals including Lex Luthor, AND return Clark to Daily Planet. You CANNOT use the select/pause feature. Gameplay must be continuous from beginning to end. NOTE - you need not actually witness the bridge blowing up at the very beginning, but you must at least enter that screen and then turn back to the phone booth.
    Submission Message
    last run is actual run. Dont be confused, its not 103 seconds, its 1:03, if you watch the timer you'll notice it goes from 59 to 100.

    I'm not sure if theres a boot up anywhere in this video segment (probably not) it was part of a 7 hour practice day of superman. Not sure what you'd see in bootup not in gameplay anyway. It was live streamed and the bootup was shown in the twitch feed. I'd upload all files before this, but well, we all know that'll just lead to a timeout.

    i would've played longer but i actually broke my reset switch. Thanks for everyone who joined in live. I learned alot from this run, and i hope to do even better in the future. I'm also planning on making a write up of what i've learned so that we can learn from each other.
    Thanks JJT_Defender thanked this post
    Likes bruzzi, GregDeg, Marcade, RaGeNyC, JJT_Defender liked this post
  2. 02-03-2018, 05:38 PM
    Nice run, accepted!
    Thanks Snowflake thanked this post
  3. 02-03-2018, 07:40 PM
    There you go...Keep at it.

    Fly very fast, if Lois or Kryptonite gets in your way...TURN!
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  4. 02-06-2018, 05:51 AM
    Accepted. Nice to see more 'timed deca' event title submissions. Loved the superman game as a kid
    Thanks Snowflake thanked this post
  5. 02-16-2018, 09:36 AM
    Yes, this 1:03 run makes the :51 very attainable. The TRogers :47 had been removed a few weeks ago - it was a time that might have eventually been disputed anyway.
    Run begins: 1:35:33
    You ARE playing on diff BB because:
    Lois comes to you immediately after touching the Kryptonite, you have to go find her on diff A.
    The enemies run from you at a slower pace than diff A, the Kryptonite also comes at you half as fast than diff A.

    Good show.

    Accepted.
    ...God gave video games to you...
    Thanks Snowflake thanked this post
  6. 02-16-2018, 12:20 PM
    The theoretical maximum is slightly less than 50 seconds. Years back I did a high-50 second run WITH cheating (the pause feature) and did not know to turn left out of the subway station to quickly enter the Planet, so adjusting for the extra walking time I did, sub-50 is possible.

    Every now and then you get a party by the jail cell...Lex plus all or close to it of the crooks are all on the same screen...so long as the kryptonite or Lois is not running interference this is as good as it gets.

    On rare occasions the helicopter snags a key bridge piece and you can carry it to complete the bridge saving a few screens of flight time. Optimally you do'nt have to see the bridge explode and the copter snags one piece to save time plus you have a jail party and no one sneaks into the subway. If you can pull all of that off in a single game AND not get snagged by kryptonite or Lois, you should break a minute easily.

    Todd's claim was 2 whole seconds faster than what we had envisioned was possible years back.
  7. 02-16-2018, 12:42 PM
    Accepted!!!
    Rodrigo Lopes
    Former Twin Galaxies Referee
    Metroid Team Member from Brazil
  8. 02-16-2018, 12:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    The theoretical maximum is slightly less than 50 seconds. Years back I did a high-50 second run WITH cheating (the pause feature) and did not know to turn left out of the subway station to quickly enter the Planet, so adjusting for the extra walking time I did, sub-50 is possible.

    Every now and then you get a party by the jail cell...Lex plus all or close to it of the crooks are all on the same screen...so long as the kryptonite or Lois is not running interference this is as good as it gets.

    On rare occasions the helicopter snags a key bridge piece and you can carry it to complete the bridge saving a few screens of flight time. Optimally you do'nt have to see the bridge explode and the copter snags one piece to save time plus you have a jail party and no one sneaks into the subway. If you can pull all of that off in a single game AND not get snagged by kryptonite or Lois, you should break a minute easily.

    Todd's claim was 2 whole seconds faster than what we had envisioned was possible years back.
    there's a lot of "what if" for sure. Is it theoreticlaly possible for the helicopter to just drop of all the pieces for you alllowing you to focus on criminals? maybe. Is it possible if i do something stupid and waste time going the wrong way that'll inspire the crimianls to run to jail and hang out near making my job easier? maybe. without reading the code it'll be very difficult i think to figure out the truly best time, however, I do think we can trial and error the most reasonable cases.

    I intend to eventually do a bigger write up and what i found during my run here. taking advantage of how the map works for quicker short cuts is of course important, and of course, having it down so well in your mind that you can instantly come up with a new route from point A to point B when needed is no small ability to get. The order of bridge pieces vs criminals is what i really started experimienting with more near the ends, and that's what seems to help a lot. the, well "pattern" might not be the perfect word, but for lack of a better word ill go with it, the "pattern" i use in this run is what i'll stick with until i perfect it. If after making zero mistakes, its still not a good enough time, i have some ideas of a few others pattern to try. Again, not every single theoretical pattern is possible to trial and error, but I do think we can go over all the reasonable ones.

    I do intend to eventually write up everything I know, and perhaps if we all swap our notes we will prove the best possible time.
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
  9. 02-16-2018, 01:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    there's a lot of "what if" for sure. Is it theoreticlaly possible for the helicopter to just drop of all the pieces for you alllowing you to focus on criminals? maybe. Is it possible if i do something stupid and waste time going the wrong way that'll inspire the crimianls to run to jail and hang out near making my job easier?


    RTM REPLY - it's been awhile but I do not believe that the helicopter on it's own can complete the bridge unless two (2) pieces are already placed and it is holding the third...I forget if you have to be present for that to happen or not, can't remember.

    A major glitch was discovered years back where you did not have to build the bridge...that was disallowed. I wrote the rules the way they currently are stated. You do not have to watch it blow up, but you do have to put it back together.

    I personally found that building the bridge first worked best as that minimized the chance of the helicopter stealing a piece. The risk-vs-reward aspect is that if you do the jail first, and find a "party" there, you could complete that phase quickly while one or more bridge pieces are not where they should be. Or you could get lucky and they are. It's a trade-off. Risk 3 pieces vs 6 or 7 criminals, I forget the exact number plus Lex.

    Years back I paused the game and watched the screens scroll by and effectively mapped out the entire layout, subways included. It's not too hard. Learning to cut corners is the tough part but for sake of maximum efficiency it is a must. Once you learn the map and the quickest ways from certain screens to either the jail, bridge or phone booth and you're all set.

    A few background buildings, usually the purple ones or those with standout building formations such as the one wit hthe pink background which is very close t the jail, tend to lead to the key areas and are worth memorizing as are the different color subway stops and whether to exist them to the left or right depending on the colour.

    Ideally you never have to travel in the subway until after you turn back to Clark Kent if all goes well, and ideally you never touch either kryptonite or Lois.

    TG never tracked "A" difficulty because so long as all went well it was indiscernible from "B". Besides, on "A" if you get pegged by kryptonite even a world record pace game gets shot to ribbons at that point in trying to find Lois...especially if she ducks into a subway.

    As for whether your actions can influence the game outcome, here is what I tried years back. Maybe you can figure it out.

    Use the pause feature IMMEDIATELY after the bridge blows. Watch the screens and see exactly where everything is located...should be in the same spots...bridge pieces, Lex, the criminals, within reason. Problem is that even if you do the exact same "path" afterwards such as completing the bridge in the exact same order game after game, things can still change, so I believe that once the bridge blows and the enemies are in their starting position, randomness occurs.

    Otherwise it would like like "The Truman Show" where everything starts on its mark and it is entirely predictable where every object goes in sequence from that point on.

    My recommendation is to complete the bridge first.

    The exact formulae Todd and I used years back, from memory...

    -> Time from start to "witnessing" the bridge explode (turning back immediately) and then turning into "Superman"...this is a fixed duration and little room for improvement exists

    -> Completing the bridge from this point, cutting corners with maximum efficiency, generally leads to the same completion time up to this point unless mid-path the helicopter snags a piece thus shaving a few screens off the process

    -> Heading to the jail area and hoping for the best, Lex plus at least 4 or 5 criminals are all there having a party...optimally you catch all before any escape that scene, or if they do you catch them in an adjacent screen and loop them back to jail. In a perfect world, you are going to be heading back to the phone booth on or before 38-40 seconds if every single element went well

    -> The quick trip to the Planet...entering the train station then heading immediately left...has a fixed duration and little room for improvement

    So you have one (1) key decision to make...bridge first or criminals first. The course of the game outcome rests on this decision.

    Doing both at the same time is ill-advised as "Lex" is always a problem until captured as is the helicopter until the bridge is built.

    Map out the course using the pause feature...having coloured pencils helps due to the many screen colours and some do tend to look alike, but I suppose with modern technology you can edit together screen grabs and do a better job.
  10. 02-16-2018, 05:25 PM
    Accepted Congratulations Roger WR

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