Dispute: D.B.Cooper D.B.Cooper - Atari 2600 / VCS - Space Invaders - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty A - 15-Minute Limit - Player: John P McAllister - Dick Moreland

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  1. Dispute: D.B.Cooper D.B.Cooper - Atari 2600 / VCS - Space Invaders - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty A - 15-Minute Limit - Player: John P McAllister - Dick Moreland

    05-25-2018, 04:49 PM
    Atari 2600 / VCS - Space Invaders - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty A - 15-Minute Limit
    Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=129291
    Rules
    15 Minute Limit
    Difficulty = A
    Any scoring after 15 minutes will not count.
    Player Name
    John P McAllister
    Original Adjudication
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php?t=187044
    Verification Method
    TGSAP
    Verification Date
    2018-05-25
    Disputed Score
    30,060 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    D.B. Cooper
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    You can see the cheat code for double shots entered in the first 15 seconds of the video. This is a violation of of Rule #5 under GENERAL GAMEPLAY GLOBAL RULES AND GUIDELINES (GRG). The use of cheat codes, cheat devices, in-game codes and continues are disallowed as a general rule. The only exceptions to this rule are: Any game track/variation that explicitly overrides this general rule with its own rules governing the matter within its specific listed rule set. The ruleset for this game does not say using this cheat code is ok therefore this is not a valid score for this track.
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  2. 05-25-2018, 04:51 PM
    I just posted some invisible text. If you click and drag at the end of my post, you can read the actual rule.
    "Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good"

    Visit my YouTube channel for videos of over 150 classic arcade games, most of which you won't see at your local arcade. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4...56xV5To9gPqsLA
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  3. 05-25-2018, 05:03 PM
    For those who aren't familiar with the game, here is the cheat code https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/atari2...nvaders/cheats

    On the Atari 2600 console, hold down Reset and Power. Now, select game 1 and then start the game. You'll now have double shots.
    "Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good"

    Visit my YouTube channel for videos of over 150 classic arcade games, most of which you won't see at your local arcade. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4...56xV5To9gPqsLA
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  4. 05-25-2018, 05:22 PM
    I am all for consistency and fairness. So I will go on record, if this dispute gets accepted and removed, I will self-dispute my own score on this track as well, (if no one else does it before I do) Heh.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/145408

    As you can see on my own score submission thread, I was VERY open to this method if it would be accepted, as I let the community decide its fate (being the original submitter), as it was.

    I understand the opposing point of views, but I still consider it "a personal preference/ or method of play", and not necessarily "cheating".

    Therefore I stick to my guns and politely say "no" to the dispute.
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  5. 05-25-2018, 07:53 PM
    While you may regard the usage of the double-fire trick as a "personal preference", it's not the way that scores were originally accepted for the title...and the rules were established quite a few years back.

    In the here-and-now it is entirely possible to create dedicated variations that allow for double-fire, there is no stopping that from happening, but make no mistake that the original tracking for the title overall did not allow for its usage.

    If a similar trick existed for arcade "Robotron" which resulted in enhanced firing capacity such as doubling the firing-rate, we all know what would happen at that point...the game would become a joke and the TGTS record would likely in short order increase by +50% or more. The equivalent exists with respect to movement in some titles...such as turbo "Ms Pacman" for which separate tracks DO exist as even an average player can score several hundred thousand on that variation as compared to the original.
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  6. 05-25-2018, 08:02 PM
    From the original score submission, "Marcade" said...

    I agree with the change of pace. I purposely did it this way, so rules would be clear. Back in MY day,, I knew referees on track 1B, that some would accept double fire, and others would not! Dead serious!!! (wont mention names)

    Is "Double fire" considered a cheat? I would have to disagree with your opinion. I personally call it a "double fire method".
    Cheating is if you can somehow turn off the invaders from shooting back at you. (Like the Galaga cheat)

    That is how I see it! :)

    RTM REPLY - well, now you know the difference between having referees and a general gaming community. I can state as a matter of fact that I would have never allowed this in the older submissions, and neither would have (although he's gone now) both Corcoran and Todd Rogers. Say what you want about them but they did not allow for that. It wasn't allowed for game 1B submissions nor the deca event which included fast zig-zagging on B (game 7 ? I forget)

    I would indeed consider it a cheat...it is defeating the spirit of the game. But if you enjoy playing at "Please Don't Hurt Me" Settings, knock yourself out.
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  7. 05-25-2018, 08:42 PM
    RTM REPLY - well, now you know the difference between having referees and a general gaming community.

    datagod interjection -
    The referees back in the day seemed to allow an awful lot of cheating, if recent major disputes are any form of measurement.


    RTM CONTINUED
    I would indeed consider it a cheat...it is defeating the spirit of the game. But if you enjoy playing at "Please Don't Hurt Me" Settings, knock yourself out.

    Is this a programmed feature or a glitch? Is this the same as "frying"? I am more of an Intellivision person, but I am learning about Atari. We did have them back in the day, but I never much was a fan.
    Your friend, datagod
    https://hashnode.com/@datagod/joinme
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  8. 05-25-2018, 08:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    While you may regard the usage of the double-fire trick as a "personal preference", it's not the way that scores were originally accepted for the title...and the rules were established quite a few years back.

    ....
    dont confuse how scores we’re originally tracked for this title with how they were tracked for this track. While asteroids tracks on general did not and continue to not allow this tactic this track in particular however does. Literally every single score on this track was accepted using this tactic. Please remember many games have more than one track and not all tracks are handled the same
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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  9. 05-25-2018, 09:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    If a similar trick existed for arcade "Robotron" which resulted in enhanced firing capacity such as doubling the firing-rate, we all know what would happen at that point...the game would become a joke and the TGTS record would likely in short order increase by +50% or more. The equivalent exists with respect to movement in some titles...such as turbo "Ms Pacman" for which separate tracks DO exist as even an average player can score several hundred thousand on that variation as compared to the original.
    Features, tricks, glitches, burning. Atari seems a lot more complicated than I remember. Is there any truth to the rumor that the more ships there are on screen, the easier the game play is (due to the slower movements)?
    Your friend, datagod
    https://hashnode.com/@datagod/joinme
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  10. 05-25-2018, 09:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    From the original score submission, "Marcade" said...

    I agree with the change of pace. I purposely did it this way, so rules would be clear. Back in MY day,, I knew referees on track 1B, that some would accept double fire, and others would not! Dead serious!!! (wont mention names)

    Is "Double fire" considered a cheat? I would have to disagree with your opinion. I personally call it a "double fire method".
    Cheating is if you can somehow turn off the invaders from shooting back at you. (Like the Galaga cheat)

    That is how I see it! :)

    RTM REPLY - well, now you know the difference between having referees and a general gaming community. I can state as a matter of fact that I would have never allowed this in the older submissions, and neither would have (although he's gone now) both Corcoran and Todd Rogers. Say what you want about them but they did not allow for that. It wasn't allowed for game 1B submissions nor the deca event which included fast zig-zagging on B (game 7 ? I forget)

    I would indeed consider it a cheat...it is defeating the spirit of the game. But if you enjoy playing at "Please Don't Hurt Me" Settings, knock yourself out.
    i speak up when the disagree so it’s only fair I speak up when I agree. This is all true what you say. We have indeed seen the difference between community and ref management. Also I would like to than the refs for all their “don’t knock me out” teddy bear mode tracks on Atari. Due to refs fearing competition and making incredible easy setting all I have to do is stay awake longer than them to get first. I love all the esi I’m getting thx to these ref tracks. While the modern community is great at cracking down on cheating they give me a lot of flack for the novelty diet of tracks both me and the old refs enjoy
    Lode Runner champ, also, Roy was right
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