Dispute: Sean Dwyer - SNES / SFC - On The Ball - NTSC - 1st Plane - Training Course [Fastest Completion] - Player: Roger Edwin Blair 111 - Score: 05.2

Is this a valid dispute?

    This poll is closed
This poll is closed
  1. Dispute: Sean Dwyer - SNES / SFC - On The Ball - NTSC - 1st Plane - Training Course [Fastest Completion] - Player: Roger Edwin Blair 111 - Score: 05.2

    02-27-2019, 04:11 PM
    SNES / SFC - On The Ball - NTSC - 1st Plane - Training Course [Fastest Completion]
    Score Track
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=43332
    Rules
    1 Player Only [No Passwords or Continues Allowed!]
    Special Rules: You MUST Successfully complete the entire course and enter your initials for your time to count.
    Player Name
    Roger Edwin Blair 111
    Original Adjudication
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php?t=191124
    Verification Method
    TGSAP
    Verification Date
    2018-09-12
    Disputed Score
    05.2 (Rank 1)
    Disputed By
    sdwyer138
    Dispute Evidence / Rationale
    I will start out by saying I have already discussed this with @Rogerpoco over PM, and he has my support in disputing.

    The track title is "...1st Plane - Training Course...", and the rules state "You MUST Successfully complete the entire course and enter your initials for your time to count. "

    What does this mean?

    The 1st Plane referrers to all four courses displayed on the screen, and the Training Course consists of 6 levels:



    If you pass all four courses, you are taken to the 2nd Plane, and so on up to 4th, or "Final", Plane.

    Roger's score of 5.2 is coming from only the first level of the Training Course. The track is looking for the total time of levels 1-6 of the Training Course, of which Roger's score is 2:33.5:



    I will be disputing the scores of Ryan Johnson in turn for the same reason.
    Thanks Rogerpoco, JJT_Defender thanked this post
  2. 02-27-2019, 04:21 PM
    I believe that Sean knows what he is talking about on this one-I clearly saw the existing score and interpreted it the same as the person putting the score before me, w/o thinking too much about it, but the ruleset for this game in general just needs to be scrapped and started again, is a good game, with a mess of a scoreboard.

    No worries, Mate, I def. understand the issues with this one.

    Still...
    That 5.2 was FAST!!!
    :)
  3. 04-02-2019, 02:53 PM
    So there is so much going on here with the track name and rules. Firstly, the track name to me means just the 1st Plane, or course, of the Training Course. Similar to World 1-1 of SMB 3. Now as for the rules. They could be interpreted 2 ways IMO. The first is exactly how they are written which goes along with the track title, you must complete the entire course for the score to be counted. Which would actually mean this score is 100% valid. The second way COULD be interpreted as the entire TRAINING COURSE needs to be completed.

    Since all other tracks have the same rules written, and each track has a specific plane number, I don't think this dispute is needed. All of Ryan Johnson's scores are for each individual track as they are written. Why would the person who created the tracks make so many individual tracks all written the same way if they wanted them to be for the entire Training course? Guess I'm voting NO.
  4. 04-02-2019, 03:07 PM
    The game definitely shows different scoring for each level and even indicates at the end of all the courses in the final results screen that the score is labeled as "World - All". So I do believe that each track as written is correct. Have to vote no on this. Name:  Screenshot (489).png
Views: 67
Size:  1.24 MB
  5. 04-02-2019, 03:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Guess I'm voting NO.
    So you should try playing the game first, because you are quite incorrect.

    "1st Plane" refers to EVERYTHING in the screen shot.

    Meaning 1st Plane is:
    Training course levels 1-6
    Beginner course levels 1-6
    Expert course levels 1-8
    Special course level 1-10

    After you finish ALL of those, you move on to the 2nd Plane and it says "2nd Plane" on the bottom of the screen. 2nd plane consists of a completely different set of Training, Beginner, Expert, and Special courses. This repeats for 3rd and 4th (final) Planes.

    Looking at the NTSC fastest completion tracks in the system we have 16 total (4 Planes x 4 Courses).
  6. 04-02-2019, 04:28 PM
    So the rules need to be written with that in there to avoid confusion, agreed. I guess I was looking it from an individual "race" track perspective rather than them as a whole. The thing is, these scores where entered via DVD for Ryan Johnson, so does that mean a ref entered them and didn't understand the rules? Are Ryan's scores then just thrown out? Something to consider.
    Likes HugDD liked this post
  7. 04-11-2019, 09:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    So the rules need to be written with that in there to avoid confusion, agreed. I guess I was looking it from an individual "race" track perspective rather than them as a whole. The thing is, these scores where entered via DVD for Ryan Johnson, so does that mean a ref entered them and didn't understand the rules? Are Ryan's scores then just thrown out? Something to consider.
    It looks like another case of track rules (including track title) that can be easily misinterpreted. The training course (singular) is one course with six segments. I agree with Sean that six segments must be completed for a submission to be eligible for this particular track. An update to the track rules is needed to avoid any future confusion. Maybe a note stating something like (all segments of the course must be completed and the total course time must be displayed).

    As for Ryan's other scores / times.... maybe TG administration can create separate segment tracks and move these scores to those.
    “The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists”
    ~Isaac Asimov
    Thanks Rogerpoco thanked this post
    Likes Rogerpoco liked this post
  8. 04-11-2019, 09:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnWorstEnemy View Post
    It looks like another case of track rules (including track title) that can be easily misinterpreted. The training course (singular) is one course with six segments. I agree with Sean that six segments must be completed for a submission to be eligible for this particular track. An update to the track rules is needed to avoid any future confusion. Maybe a note stating something like (all segments of the course must be completed and the total course time must be displayed).

    As for Ryan's other scores / times.... maybe TG administration can create separate segment tracks and move these scores to those.
    What I actually remember, and I think Sean will concur, is that the track wording on the first track can possibly be interpreted the way I interpreted it, especially compared to the existing score-but once you look at the next track, you realize something isn't right, especially if you are familiar with the game-you know me, that's not always my M.O., lol.

    All of the existing scores can be interpreted to represent some specific achievement in the game tho, and I agree, they should be migrated to a more properly worded track.

    Again, definitely in agreeance with this one.
    :)
  9. 08-29-2019, 07:25 PM
    Dispute is valid.

    Added clarification to rules.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
    www.TwinGalaxies.com
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