Dispute: Angela Stefanski - NES / FAMICOM / DISK - The Legend of Zelda - NTSC - Fastest Completion [1st Quest] - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 31:37.0

Is this a valid dispute?

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This poll is closed
  1. 11-15-2019, 11:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious View Post
    I try not to speculate too much but I always thought team Metroid and Rodrigo were the same person.
    I don't remember names, but I'm pretty sure that there were about 5 -ish members of that team? They did post individually (on the forums)
    I doubt that Rodrigo set up different accounts to pretend to be someone else. I could be wrong . But I don't think so.

    Bit sad to see it come to this. I've seen Rodrigo post since I joined up 12 years ago. 5800 scores is a lot to wipe out. But that's the way the cookie crumbles.

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  2. 11-15-2019, 11:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    So I was doing some digging and found some interesting things in the archives. A member asked previously about if Rodrigo used a different route or if there was a death that could of caused the level 9 enemy spawns. I would like to point everyone's attention to this thread from 2003.


    Here in this thread we can see RTM verified a Zelda run where the player went from level 8 to 9. This has path has been unchanged for over 16 years. Now there is something else to note in that thread too and that is the rules of submitting to this game. The 7th rule says and I quote "if at any point in the game your heart counter is depleted, your record is invalid".

    Attachment 99909

    This means that if Rodrigo would of died in his run his run would of been immediately DQ'd. So there was no alternate path taken nor did he die. The evidence provided by members of this community confirms 100% that the footage that was analyzed (which Rodrigo confirmed to be the run) is in fact SPLICED.
    This is a good find and definitely eliminates the possibility that he died.

    Regarding your other assertion, please help me understand how you know definitively and absolutely that it is technically impossible for no alternate path to have been taken. It would be helpful if you can point me to the technical evidence of this so I can reference it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    I would also like to point some attention to this thread as well.


    In this thread we have Rodrigo claiming he had gotten a WR time using an emulator.

    Attachment 99910
    I see no specific claim of a "world record" in the evidence provided. I see a statement where he explains that he achieved a time with an EMU. The english in Rodrigo's message is poor but the communication is pretty clear. It appears he's achieved some time in an emulator that makes him believe that a sub 38 time on the original console can be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    The next post is from RTM saying that using an emulator concerns him and he will have to talk to Ron and Jeff to see if should be allowed.

    Attachment 99913

    Community members and even a former ref express concerns about using emulators then Rodrigo makes a follow up post

    Attachment 99916
    Examining the above, it is clear that RTM misunderstood Rodrigo's post (probably due to the poor english) and thought that Rodrigo was interested in submitting EMU performances. Rodrigo then goes out of his way, repeating himself several times, to explain that he just uses EMU for practice and that he is submitting records using the original cartridge and system.

    Rodrigo then further clarifies and reiterates that his previous message was to communicate that he got his 35:44 time on EMU which has led him to think it is possible to do similarly using the cartridge and original system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    RTM then insists that he will still have a talk about using emulator runs. Sadly the thread ends right afterwards with no conclusion.

    Attachment 99917

    This is a bit of a concern to me because we have a person claiming they can do a WR on emulator and then a ref checking to see if it is allowed with no update or conclusion on the matter. We also know that Rodrigo had been playing Zelda on emulators since 2003.
    Your statement of "we have a person claiming they can do a WR on emulator " is not specifically accurate based on the evidence you presented. There was no specific claim by Rodrigo that he considered his EMU time to be a world record or that he ever intended submit his EMU performance with such a claim.

    RTM checking to see if it is allowed is not relevant to anything in this dispute case, nor is it relevant or surprising that RTM never followed up on the matter since his whole reason for checking on the issue was due to his belief that Rodrigo was submitting EMU performances, which was based on his misunderstanding of Rodrigo's initial post.

    Again, I freely admit I may not be understanding something correctly that you have presented. Any clarification would be helpful.

    Rodrigo openly admitting to using EMU to practice with is definitely an objectively established fact presented by your evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Now this one was brought to my attention by other people in the community. For a long time people had questions on if the Metroid Team from Brazil had been verifying their own records. Former refs stated in the past that one of the rules when they became refs was they couldnt verify their own records. I would like to point people's attention to this thread.


    Scott Stilphen (Stonic) had asked Todd about this issue only for Todd to tell him that in fact Walter did give them permission to do so.

    Attachment 99921
    The above evidence is ultimately hearsay that shows clear disagreement and conflicting information. Unfortunately, it is not possible to use this to determine anything related to the dispute claim assertions definitively or objectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    After this thread was brought to my attention from Matthew I read it only to find this confirmation from Stilphen. Another thing Matthew pointed out was this.

    Attachment 99922

    As you can see Rodrigo has had plenty of scores and speedruns verified by a referee in the database. If Rodrigo lives in Brazil and the only refs in Brazil were his friends and teammates then who was the ref in Brazil that verified these? This isn't just scores and times that were part of one event either. This spanned around a course of 8 years.
    Your questions and conjecture are fine to have here, but from what you have presented, it seems they may be based on some significant subjective assertions partially derived from conflicting quotes between people. It is difficult to comfortably utilize this type of evidence in any objective and definitive way toward the dispute claim decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Another thing worth pointing out is that Rodrigo flat out refused to submit to any ref but RTM. There is a thread in the archive that I had came across when this dispute started that I can't seem to find where it proves as such. Rodrigo was sitting on a new Zelda record and the head NES ref at the time Kelly Flewin advised him to send it to the actual NES ref since Robert was gone for 8 months. Rodrigo refused and instead decided to wait 8 months for Robert to even be back. That's pretty suspicious but include the fact that once Team Brazil became refs this was no longer an issue and the Zelda WR announcements from Robert just seemingly stopped. There might be some more digging I can do but I will have to see about that when I get some more free time. Hopefully this info helps. Thanks.
    Always interested in meaningful anecdotal information but as you noted it is always important to provide evidentiary support for any claims being made. Until that is provided, it is difficult to factor in some of these evidentiary claims toward the decision.

    That being said, since all the circumstantial and discussion evidence are preserved in the dispute claim with the score, it can always be helpful to future audiences who may read the dispute to make their own conclusions.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
  3. 11-15-2019, 11:49 PM
    Not sure if anyone has really thought about this part, but IF all of Rodrigo's scores are removed, does that mean that many of us will negative CR for life if we voting on many of his submissions? How does a score being removed in a dispute affect CR? It get's reversed right?
  4. 11-15-2019, 11:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    I would also like to point out one other thing. When Stilphen raised concerns of Team Metroid verifying each other runs Rodrigo had TWO Atari 2600 verified by a ref months earlier.

    Attachment 99930

    Attachment 99932
    Please help me understand the significance of this and what this definitively and objectively establishes in relation to the dispute claim assertions. I honestly having some difficulty understanding the evidentiary relevance because this data comes across as a form of conjectured implication as opposed to definitive proof of something relevant to the dispute claim.

    Can you please connect the dots on this? What is this evidence attempting to factually establish? Just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting or misunderstanding anything on this important matter.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
  5. 11-16-2019, 12:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Joonas View Post
    I'm just gonna say this; wasn't it convenient how Robert never mentioned any of this emulator stuff. Surely he still remembers if emulator was used, or did his memory vanish just as quickly as he washed his hands from this dispute.
    There is no way for me to know for certain, but it seems possible that the EMU stuff was not mentioned due to there not being any specifically definitive or objective reason to. The evidence presented clearly indicates that Rodrigo did not intend to send EMU performances. I may be mistaken in my understanding but the relevance of that EMU information to the dispute claim seems to be based in conjecture.

    Not sure why there would be any expectation for RTM or anyone else to mention it without definitive meaning behind it.

    Without some kind of definitive meaning and point to an evidentiary inclusion, statements like "and I also heard his brother was caught cheating playing poker some years ago..." would be some kind of "evidence" - when really all that is useless conjecture designed to build a false sense of conclusion. It doesn't actually help TG come to a determination, it distracts from it's dispute claim evidence verification goal.

    Is it conjecture that Rodrigo sent in EMU performances? Or did I miss a dispute claim evidentiary entry that established it as definitive fact that Rodrigo sent in EMU performances?

    I'm asking this because I'm seeing a lot of post about "case closed" (as it relates to proof of cheating, not score improbability) and etc. so I am trying to get on the same page and making sure I didn't miss something.
  6. 11-16-2019, 12:18 AM
    Talking about Team Metroid... Here's "another" fake score from the team: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...-Score-28-00-0

    While no video or information about this, it is a literally and undoubtly impossible time to achieve under those rules.
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  7. 11-16-2019, 12:24 AM
    I was able to find this:

    Valter A Treib ()
    Referee, PR, Brazil
    South America

    Rodrigo Lopes ()
    Referee, SC, Brazil
    South America

    Carlos C Krueger
    Referee, SC, Brazil
    South America

    Cristiano T Assumpcao
    Referee, SC, Brazil
    South America

    Proof that these are Team Metroid members:

    Carlos Krueger and "fellow Team members Cristiano Assumpcao and Rodrigo Lopes"

    Valter is "TRB_MetroidTeam"

    I couldn't find any other referees from Brazil besides Team Metroid.
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  8. 11-16-2019, 12:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    Yes... Its his typical "run and hide"...[*****************************EDITED BY ADMIN***************************]

    And congrats to Rodrigo, who used him and his own "team" to manipulate and cheat his scores! Either way, his reputation is OFFICIALLY tarnished via this very dispute!
    I have edited your specific comments out as a protection to you because some of your statements can be construed and legally proven as libel and defamatory toward the person referenced and you specifically placed these comments in a public dispute thread record.

    Please understand that I have some experience in this type of matter, and it is possible that if those specific comments stayed up there could be some permanent legal exposure to you personally here since you can not edit your comments as remedy to a lawsuit.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
  9. 11-16-2019, 12:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo View Post
    Here we have Martin Bedard confirming that Rodrigo only sends his tapes to RTM and head NES ref Kelly Flewin says he has no concerns the record goes to RTM. Now the thing that gets me is in this thread is Kelly Flewin is on vacation at Funspot and RTM is at a limited capacity and not partaking in the website or accepting submissions other than MAME. Yet if you look at the date of Rodrigo's announcement its less than a month before the Zelda run was verified. So who verified this run? RTM who Rodrigo only submitted to or Team Brazil. It is also worth pointing out that RTM if having verified this score never made a run down or analysis of this particular run even though he had did so in the past for every Zelda run.
    Ok. Please help me understand what all this is supposed to prove. I want to make sure I understand the point.

    Rodrigo only sends his tapes to RTM. Let's assume that as fact for now. What does that mean exactly? RTM verified the score? Ok, let's say he did. What does that mean? How is this proving score invalidity? Just trying to understand.

    RTM never made a run down or analysis. Ok let's assume that as fact as well. What does that mean? Does that mean RTM did not verify the score and someone else did? Ok. Let's assume that. What does that prove? How does it prove score invalidity? Again, just wanting to understand.

    TG is purely interested in verifying the dispute claim evidence that proves score invalidity. Im trying to connect how your data above directly helps.
  10. 11-16-2019, 12:47 AM
    Jace, we have a clear statement from Todd that Metroid team verifyid their own scores. Isn't that the definition of collusion?
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