Dispute: Angela Stefanski - NES / FAMICOM / DISK - The Legend of Zelda - NTSC - Fastest Completion [1st Quest] - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 31:37.0

Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 11-15-2019, 03:16 PM
    Now I see why @Siliconian doesn't want us to use "stuff said 15 years ago."
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  2. 11-15-2019, 03:20 PM
    As per request of @Marcade I did some more digging. I found the thread where Rodrigo refuses to submit to anybody but RTM. My memory was a little off on what the thread contained. This is a great find because Rodrigo is announcing the WR of THIS VERY SUBMISSION!


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    As you can see there Rodrigo announces the time and user "Square" tells him to send it to the official NES ref Kelly because Robert isn't taking submissions at the time.

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    Here is Barthax saying that RTM as Senior Ref is qualified to review the submission. Followed by Rodrigo saying he only sends his Zelda runs to RTM. Square then posts a message from RTM confirming he isnt accepting submissions at the time.

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    Here we have Martin Bedard confirming that Rodrigo only sends his tapes to RTM and head NES ref Kelly Flewin says he has no concerns the record goes to RTM. Now the thing that gets me is in this thread is Kelly Flewin is on vacation at Funspot and RTM is at a limited capacity and not partaking in the website or accepting submissions other than MAME. Yet if you look at the date of Rodrigo's announcement its less than a month before the Zelda run was verified. So who verified this run? RTM who Rodrigo only submitted to or Team Brazil. It is also worth pointing out that RTM if having verified this score never made a run down or analysis of this particular run even though he had did so in the past for every Zelda run.
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  3. 11-15-2019, 04:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Joonas View Post
    I'm just gonna say this; wasn't it convenient how Robert never mentioned any of this emulator stuff. Surely he still remembers if emulator was used, or did his memory vanish just as quickly as he washed his hands from this dispute.
    you'll find that despite robert bragging about his very detailed memory, his incredibly detailed memory contradicts both itself and facts depending on the case he's trying to make at the time.
    Lode Runner Champion
  4. 11-15-2019, 04:28 PM
    billy mitchel ban -- who screwed steve weibe on the "gummy substance" nonsense
    todd rogers ban -- who claimed to eye witness at least one of todd's impossible scores, as well as argued we should round his impossible into possible ones to destroy the evidence, and then after admitting his error there when another issue was found went right back to defending impossible digits on todd scores later? and then when it was clear todd was being banned anyway ratted on him, but only once he knew jace would lock the thread preventing anyone from pointing out the inconsitincies in his ratting out of todd?
    ron corcoron ban -- who defended ron's self entry of his fake scores, only at the last second to turn on him and start a petitoin to ban ron when in reality the steps to ban ron were already inthe works?
    rodrigo -- who verified the runs?

    are you starting to see a pattern here?

    I submit you ban the mruczek.
    Lode Runner Champion
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  5. 11-15-2019, 06:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post

    and then when it was clear todd was being banned anyway ratted on him, but only once he knew jace would lock the thread preventing anyone from pointing out the inconsitincies in his ratting out of todd?

    That is the one thing that bothered me about the Dragster dispute. It just ended all of the sudden because of a testimony from RTM that had many inconsistencies. I wish TG would re-open that one just so people could correct the mistakes made in it.
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  6. 11-15-2019, 06:28 PM
    With this information coming into the light, I'm all for a full ban and removal of his scores. This is some shady **** that doesn't belong on the site at all. Twin Galaxies can NOT ignore this.. well it can but it won't look good on them. What about team Metroid? How come we haven't heard from them? They always respond on his submissions.
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  7. 11-15-2019, 06:39 PM
    If @Siliconian won't provide any footage or counter claim to this dispute I would only ask this one simple yes or no question to Rodrigo. Did RTM verify the run?
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  8. 11-15-2019, 06:56 PM
    I try not to speculate too much but I always thought team Metroid and Rodrigo were the same person.
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  9. 11-15-2019, 09:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post

    If he is deemed to have cheated on this submission all of his Twin Galaxies scores should be removed.

    If only his pre-tgsap scores are removed, then what we are saying is that we are sure enough that he cheated to remove some of his scores, but not sure enough to remove them all.
    Certainly, if someone is definitively found and absolutely proven to have deliberately misrepresented a submission, then all of their submissions should be removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    Cheating is binary. There is not in between.

    If one score is removed for cheating, they should ALL be removed. Cheaters must not be tolerated in any way.
    Agreed completely.
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  10. 11-15-2019, 09:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mrturk View Post
    Starctytas and I explained how cheating could have been done with those 4 cases so I am not sure I agree with TG Admin.'s explanation of "not explaining how it could have been done."
    TG Admin was not attempting to say that there was no explanation how it could have been done, it is saying that it does not see objectively definitive claim evidence of how it was specifically done in the dispute claim thread.

    Example looked for (paraphrasing) - "It is a quantified fact that this is exactly how the submitter cheated. Here is objective and definitive proof that supports that fact claim. There can be no other possibility. Case closed."

    Instead the dispute claim evidence asserts something more like this (paraphrasing) - "We have described 4 ways to cheat, but we not sure which one the submitter specifically used. Also, while all evidence points to improbability, it is possible that the submitter did not use any of the 4 ways."

    Quote Originally Posted by mrturk View Post
    One thing I would like TG admin. to possibly clarify though is sidestepping the strongest and most damning evidence that has been presented IMO. That evidence would be the comparison of TSA's spliced submission to that of the submission in question. If TSA's run represents the only way that those enemies could appear that way using an "optimized" route and that spliced run and the one in question are the only 2 known in zelda speedrunning history to feature those enemies in those specific locations then doesn't that implicitly prove that the run in question must also contain a splice even if the 4 cases that starcrytas and I discussed could be ignored?
    "If TSA's run represents the only way that those enemies could appear that way" - Based on what is presented in the dispute thread, this 'fact' seems to be generally assumed and not definitively proven.

    Has this assumption been fully technically explored and completely extrapolated and indeed been definitively proven that it is literally the only way?

    This would be good to know and indeed if it is fact then case would be easily closed definitively. Based on available info in the dispute thread, the enemy configuration appears to be likely improbable but not impossible.
    Jace Hall
    Head Custodian
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